Senate Education Committee
January 29, 2025
Senator Jane English [00:00:00] ...meeting to order. Seeing a quorum, we will proceed. Let me see. Senator Dismang is not here yet. I have a bill.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:00:54] Members, we call to order and Senator English is going to run SB 89. And Senator, you're recognized.
Senator Jane English [00:01:03] Thank you very much. Good morning. And basically what this is a transparency bill and it provides for school districts and schools to have its board of directors on the-- but also the opportunity for us, 24 hours in advance with the agenda is posted on the school's website so that everybody knows what's going to be on the agenda for the next day. So that's pretty much what this is.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:01:48] Members, anyone have any questions? Senator Murdock, you're recognized.
Senator Reginald Murdock [00:01:58] Thank you, Mr. Chair. Senator, as it relates to the time frame on page two, on the back page, it says that this shall be posted no later than 24 hours following, which effectively means following the meeting. The only concern I have for that is the capacity for some of our obviously smaller districts maybe that don't have the capacity in 24 hours. I mean, you know, that meeting is at night and they have to have within 24 hours. If I'm reading this correctly, they've got to have it posted.
Senator Jane English [00:02:34] After they're approved, 24 hours after they're approved.
Senator Reginald Murdock [00:02:36] Right after the meeting, the very next day, they have to have it posted. So that's my only concern with this. I like the transparency and certainly letting everyone know what is happening. And I have seen, let me agree with you, I have seen where it's taken way too long or not at all. So I do agree that it's necessary. Just the 24 hours is the concern. Thank you.
Senator Jane English [00:03:00] Thank you.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:03:05] Members, any other questions? Senator Bryant, you're recognized.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:03:09] Thank you, Chair. I guess, Senator Murdock, in that same vein, Senator English, is there a better time frame? Because I agree. If you adjourn the meeting at 10 p.m. and you're kind of scrambling the next day to get things posted. If they're in violation and they wait until the following day, after the 24 hours.
Senator Jane English [00:03:29] I think we had to set a number, set a time frame because sometimes they aren't posted at all. And we had to come up with something that gives us, and that 24 hours is plenty of time. Even if a meeting adjourns at 10:00 at night, that's still 24 hours. That's still the next night at 10:00. So people ought to have that time in between to post approved minutes.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:03:58] Okay. Thank you.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:04:04] Other questions? Members. Senator Dotson, you look like you may you're contemplating a question. Senator Davis, you're recognized while Senator Dotson thinks.
Senator Breanne Davis [00:04:26] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize for being a few minutes late, and this question may have been asked. But the agendas of special meetings, I know, I think under FOIA, you just have to notify the public at least two hours before your meeting. So has this already been asked? If you call a meeting at, you know, it's noon, and you need to have a special called board meeting at the end of the day at 5:30, and you are notifying the press, I mean, you're meeting the requirements under FOIA. But with this, how they would be in violation then of this law if it wasn't posted 24 hours ahead of time?
Senator Jane English [00:05:05] Basically this is talking about the board minutes.
Senator Breanne Davis [00:05:09] Okay. I was reading agendas down here at the bottom.
Senator Jane English [00:05:19] That's probably a concern. I don't know how often that happens. I think overall this probably works pretty well in lieu of not posting them at all.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:05:40] Any other questions? Senator Bryant, you're recognized.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:05:48] I guess to follow on with Senator Davis, I would say, is there anything that we can do, this committee can do currently to bring clarity on the special meetings? Because I think that happens quite often to where an event happens in the morning, they have to call a special. And with this, what is the repercussions if they do that and then you have a parent say, I wasn't notified and you were supposed to have done this 24 hours. It can open up litigation that the school.
Senator Jane English [00:06:21] We can amend that if that's the will of the committee.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:06:26] And I don't know. I'd ask a former member of a school board what would be appropriate for that notification outside of what's existing in FOIA .
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:06:41] So am I hearing Senator Dotson? You're recognized.
Senator Jim Dotson [00:06:46] Thank you, Mr. Chair. Senator English, it seems to me like 24 hours is probably fine for regular board meetings. With the special meetings, I don't know if we can strike that or maybe strike special meetings out of there or maybe make it a different time frame, like 2 or 4-- whatever you decided to do-- but the same day for a special meeting. That would be the suggestion I would have.
Senator Jane English [00:07:20] We can do that.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:07:24] I'm hearing the committee had some concerns. Senator, are you going to pull it down today and amend it, come back?
Senator Jane English [00:07:31] We'll do that.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:07:32] All right. Thank you very much for the questions. Thank you.
Senator Jane English [00:07:56] So let me see. Okay. I see Representative Ray is here. Would you like to present your bill? Okay.
Representative David Ray [00:08:36] All right. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee. David Ray, State Representative, District 69. House Bill 1005, what this bill does is it updates the National Guard tuition waiver program and improves it by allowing Guardsmen to use their benefit for a post-secondary credential or certificate in addition to a degree producing program. So by way of background, this program was created in 2017. It was actually created by my predecessor, Doug House.
And one of the big challenges for all of the armed forces is recruitment and retention. And obviously, the active duty has the GI Bill. A lot of other surrounding states had these types of tuition waiver programs for their Guardsmen. And so in 2017, we created this program basically as an employee benefit for our Guardsmen. Since the program's been implemented, there's been about 400 to 500 Guardsmen a year that avail themselves of this great employee benefit. But the program currently only allows for the tuition waiver to be used for those who are enrolled in a degree producing program.
But as we know, there's a lot of credentials and certificates that are worthwhile that are not part of a degree producing program, but are still very valuable for workforce and skills development, particularly in a lot of high needs areas. Some examples of that would be things like HVAC, EMT, welding, some of the elements of manufacturing like machining, CNC, and quality control, certificates in auto mechanic, diesel technician, collision repair specialist, high voltage linemen. Those are some of the more common examples.
So obviously from a workforce development issue perspective, this is a positive thing. But it's also a great thing to do to enhance this benefit that we provide to our Guardsmen who are there when our state experiences a crisis, whether it's helping clear the roads of stranded motorists in an ice storm or clearing debris when a tornado blows through or anything that they're asked to do. And so with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions about the bill.
Senator Jane English [00:10:51] Senator Bryant.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:10:52] Thank you, Madam Chair. And this may be getting into the weeds a little bit because I know we're moving and trying to encourage postsecondary credentialing and certificates. And most of those will be going through Office of Skills Development through Department Commerce or through, whether it's Higher Ed or some form of control over the certificates. Would an airman be able to, if I created a certificate and a class that goes with it independently of state controls or regulatory controls, could an airman ask to be reimbursed to pursue that, which is not sanctioned underneath the state control?
Representative David Ray [00:11:38] Well, they have to use, the way the program is set up, they have to use their tuition waiver at a state school. So all of those programs at state schools, I presume, are approved by the state.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:11:57] Part of that overseas tuition... would not ...this program, would go to that and make sure that it is a bona fide skill that's needed and not just some guy in his basement pumping out degrees or pumping out programs.
Representative David Ray [00:12:11] I mean, they'd have to use it at one of our, if they're pursuing like a technical certificate or a certificate of proficiency or something, that's going to be at one of our two year schools.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:12:23] Okay. Okay. I see a lot of head nodding in the back. So thank you.
Senator Jane English [00:12:29] Senator Murdock.
Senator Reginald Murdock [00:12:34] Okay. Just making sure-- you raised something for me-- to make sure I'm clear. The institution will be those institutions that are previously approved institutions that we have in our state, either two year or four year?
Representative David Ray [00:12:47] That's right.
Senator Reginald Murdock [00:12:48] No outliers that they can petition to because that won't be covered under this law.
Representative David Ray [00:12:54] No, absolutely not. All of those parameters were set up in the 2017 law as to what institutions they can attend. So this doesn't this bill doesn't alter any of those.
Senator Jane English [00:13:10] Senator Bryant.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:13:12] I'm just going to go a little one layer deeper to make sure. So we've got several of our post-secondary institutions of Higher Ed that do certificates in trades. But then we've got other partners that are not associated, like a school of electricity for an apprenticeship program. Would this be able to use concurrently, and typically our industries will foot those bills and pay for that apprentice to continue in the program while they're getting their, say, their journeyman license. Would this be an opportunity for that industry to partner with the tuition assistance program and say, use your benefits to offset my industry costs to pursue those post-secondary classes required for this credential? They'll all be approved by the Department of Labor. And I'm just curious how far this would allow.
Representative David Ray [00:14:03] Yeah. So the way the program works is you have to apply for any federal aid that you're eligible for, and then you have to apply for any aid from that school, that institution that you would be eligible for. And then whatever those categories don't cover, the remaining tuition, if there is any, is what the tuition waiver covers.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:14:28] If the certificate programs aren't traditionally covered underneath those other programs and the tuition program gets approached by an apprenticeship school that offers classes that lead towards specific certification directly to industry, not through, you know, Higher Ed, could they be approached and say, hey, would you offer our tuition waiver assistance to our airmen that come through your program that are working 9 to 5 jobs trying to get a journeyman license in the program?
Representative David Ray [00:15:00] I suppose they could, but I'm not 100% sure I'm following what you're trying to ask.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:15:10] Is there anybody in the in the room that--
Representative David Ray [00:15:15] Yeah, we have some folks from the National Guard that are here. And we have some folks from the two-year colleges that are here.
Jeff Wood [00:15:36] Jeff Wood, chief of staff, Department of the Military. And I think one of the important things about this that hadn't been mentioned yet is the rules for the waiver program are promulgated. So the legislature is going to have a lot of say in how we implement the waiver for the two year degrees, which ones are going to qualify, which ones are not going to qualify. And in the situation that you described, I don't think this would cover that. It's funded through Higher Ed, That's where the funding comes through to pay for the waiver. So it's going to have to tie back through that stream somehow.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:16:06] Okay. Okay. Is there any chance? Like how would that be modified? Because f I'm an industry and I'm traditionally sending it to a school independent of Higher Ed, but Higher Ed offers the schools that I could choose to send my apprentice to. And now I can offset my industry costs by sending them directly to a state sponsored program that has those benefits. If I'm the third party that isn't eligible, I'm about to lose a lot of business just by the nature of industry trying to capitalize on what they can.
Jeff Wood [00:16:45] And I think what we would address is we have education officers that talk with our soldiers. I know General Bridges has been really big on reaching out to the two year schools and the trade schools to try to get partnerships. So I think if we identified either those private industry companies that, hey, we've got a need for, you know, HVAC or anything else, I think these are natural partnerships there for us because a lot of soldiers are going to get the training when they sign up and go to AIT, they're going to get some training in different skills that they could apply right away and then use this benefit to get that licensing credential.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:17:15] So what I'm hearing is there is some flexibility in the program or would there be required statutory changes that will allow that flexibility.
Jeff Wood [00:17:25] One, I think there's flexibility. And two, I think we could flesh that out there in the promulgation process when we have to go back to add this to the tuition waiver. We could, you know, make sure we cover that then.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:17:33] Yeah. All right. I appreciate it. And if any committee member has a question on that process, I would encourage you to ask. Thank you.
Senator Jane English [00:17:46] Any questions? So I think we have one person signed up to speak for the bill.
Summer DeProw [00:18:05] Good morning, Senator English. I am Summer DeProw, Chancellor at the University of Arkansas, Pulaski Technical College. And Representative Ray, you've done a great job with this and explaining things. The one item I wanted to share that compliments the bill is throughout the hired grant proposal and writing process, we worked very closely with the energy transmission companies and regulation, Southwest Power Pool, MISO, Entergy as well, Arkansas Electric Cooperatives. And then on the other grant with Dassault Falcon Jet.
And all of those entities are very interested in hiring people with any type of military background. And I think what Representative Ray is doing here is gives them an opportunity to earn that accelerated eight week to at most 16 week education that would lead them across into that civilian world. And there is a higher need and a higher desire to hire these individuals because of their discipline and the training that they get in the military.
But then this would help them bridge that gap between military and civilian world. So is there anything else that I can think of? I'm happy to answer any questions about that process or comments that have been made to me from various relatively large and high skill, high wage type companies.
Senator Jane English [00:19:37] Thank you. Thank you. Senator Davis.
Senator Breanne Davis [00:19:47] And thank you, Madam Chair. I like this bill. I think it's a good bill. I think we're having a lot of conversations about things that have fiscal impact. And I'm of the opinion that it's a bill we probably need to hold at this time just to see as session progresses how much money we're actually spending and able to prioritize what's important over the months as we see a lot of bills with fiscal impact to general revenue and the EETF fund. I feel like this is a good one to prioritize, but we're still so early on that I think it's important for me anyways to at least just hold on this and wait and see what comes in session and let us prioritize a little better on spending. Thank you.
Representative David Ray [00:20:38] That's obviously at the discretion of the committee. What I would say to the fiscal impact, if you look at the fiscal impact, the way it was calculated was, they sort of made an assumption that there would be a 20% increase in utilization of the program. I think that assumption may be a little bit aggressive. The numbers in the participation in this program has held very steady between 400 and 500 participants in the most recent years that it's been in effect. And there is a $1.4 million appropriation each year for the program. And there's also a $3 million governor's letter that has been added to Higher Ed. So all the communications that I've received from the agency is that there's money to cover it.
Senator Breanne Davis [00:21:39] Thank. Thank you, Madam Chair. Is that fund, the 1.3 or 1.4 million, is that fully utilized each year, or is there money traditionally left over?
Representative David Ray [00:21:47] There has been years in the past where there's been money left over. But in the most recent years, it typically gets utilized.
Senator Jane English [00:22:00] Senator Dotson.
Senator Jim Dotson [00:22:04] Thank you, Madam Chair. Representative Ray, so this is coming out of a fund that we're already utilizing for. And so we put X number of dollars into that fund. However, if the funds that we put in there are used up, it just goes on a waiting list? People go on a waiting list or how does that work? Are we obligated to put more funds in there, I guess?
Representative David Ray [00:22:30] Sure. So the funding for the programs appropriated from the Higher Ed Grants Fund account. And in the past, when there has been an overrun, basically the department has just pushed a little bit of money over there to cover the difference. But the $3 million letter from the governor should provide more than ample balance to cover the expenditures.
Senator Jim Dotson [00:22:58] The expected increase over the current program utilization without capping that out?
Representative David Ray [00:23:03] Right.
Senator Jane English [00:23:07] Senator Sullivan.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:23:09] I think we're likely to see a number of bills with a fiscal impact. So someone here from Higher Ed, have we calculated what that package looks like from, not only your bill but other bills that may come up? Do we know what's in the list? Because $3 million can go pretty quickly when people say, well, I want my part of that and grab it. So does Higher Ed have an idea of what that total should be, including this bill and others?
Nick Fuller [00:23:47] Nick Fuller. I'm the assistant commissioner for the Division of Higher Education. The impact of this will not affect quite a few of the others that we're looking at with lottery funds. That is a different impact that we calculate how all of the different changes will affect that. This one does have a dedicated appropriation for the National Guard tuition waiver. But like Representative Ray said, it's $1.4 million now with the governor's letter for additional 3 million to cover the current utilization of the program, where there is $3 million of additional funding also added in the governor's balanced budget that she presented in the fall to make sure that the funding is there for a full $4.4 million for this program.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:24:25] Yeah, I understand on this program. But other legislators, now that I know that there's money out there, I may go write a bill.
Nick Fuller [00:24:35] I don't know that there--.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:24:36] A million dollars for ASU or something that we want to do. So I'm just wondering, do we have an idea of all the bills that are out there and what our total spend is? Because our job is to prioritize that spending to the most effective use. And if first come, first serve, if that's our approach, that's not necessarily a really good way to spend.
Nick Fuller [00:25:02] And I would say that the Higher Ed Grants Fund, all of the funds for those scholarships are allocated to current programs. So there's not an excess in that program.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:25:12] But the bills out there. That's what I'm asking. Are you aware of other bills that are going to reach into this? For example, the one I haven't filed yet?
Nick Fuller [00:25:22] I'm not aware of that. No, sir. The only ones we have seen, talk of, are ones that affect the lottery funds, which does not touch this.
Senator Dan Sullivan [00:25:31] I gotcha. Thank you.
Senator Jane English [00:25:41] What is the will of the committee?
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:25:49] I'm going to put this in the queue because I can't read the room very well right now. But I am for this. In making a motion to pass, I would hope this committee forwards it on because I don't think at the end of the day, a, the governor's letter; b, the fund exists. The impetus of the bill is exactly the direction I think the governor's office and this General Assembly wants to head with post-secondary credentialing certificates, to not steer those into necessarily a college degree.
But if it's meant for them, they'll get that credential and they'll do that. It continues the workforce. That being said, I don't want to make a motion and have one bite of the apple taken. And I don't know if it's appropriate to move this in to Tax & Rev and let it sit in a queue or just let this committee deal with this.
Senator Jane English [00:26:39] Committee, because as he said, this is part of these other dollars that are already designated for this. It's not like we're going to add new dollars out there. I think this comes out of a pot that's already established. It just gives them the ability to do this certification training, which it is something we're all for.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:27:01] Well, then I will, with respect with our airmen and the direction I think the state is heading, I would make a motion do pass.
Senator Jane English [00:27:11] All in favor, aye. All opposed? Ayes have it.
Senator Joshua Bryant [00:27:18] Thank you.
Senator Jane English [00:27:19] Thank you very much. Okay. Well, I think that is it for today. We do not have any other bills on the agenda, so we will see you on Monday at 10:00.
