Arkansas Legislative Council

December 20, 2024

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Members, go ahead and start finding your way to your seats. We're fixing to get started. All right, members, if you would, first things first. Representative elect Barnes, we're going to go ahead and recognize you for a prayer. If members would stand.

 

Representative Glenn Barnes Let us pray. Father God, we thank you today for, God, first of all, to live in a state who still acknowledges you as king. We pray today for this meeting, and that business be conducted in a way that will give honor to you. You said that if a man lack wisdom let him ask it of you, God. Today we ask wisdom, that the decisions that are made will be for the benefit of all Arkansans. Again, in Jesus name, we pray, Amen. Thank God.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Thank you, Representative Barnes. Members, we are going to take a couple of things out of order real quick for respect of other members, got to get to other appointments. First off, I recognize Senator Bryant for a point of personal privilege. Senator, you know the protocol. If you'll have your witnesses introduce themselves for the record.

 

Senator Josh Bryant Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Joshua Bryant, State Senate District 32.

 

Kylie Sutton Kylie Sutton of Rogers, Arkansas.

 

Mike Hagar Mike Hagar, secretary of the Department of Public Safety and director of State Police.

 

Senator Josh Bryant Thank you, Members. Members, this morning, I'd like to start off by saying this is a Senate citation for Miss Kylie Sutton. If you recall in the news back in the summer, we had an incident on Interstate 49 in Rogers that involved a trooper situation with a motorist. Made national news. Within that was a citizen of Rogers, Arkansas, who decided to make things happen. So in life, we all encounter people that can watch what happens, people that wonder what happened, and people that make things happen. And Miss Kylie Sutton is one of those that obviously can make things happen. I'd like to hear from her before I read the Senate citation and let her give you a few words.

 

Kylie Sutton Just want to start out by saying that I appreciate--

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Ma'am, if you would,get real close to that mic.

 

Kylie Sutton Sorry, I'm a shorty. Okay. I appreciate all of you guys for everything you do for our state, because I love Arkansas. I was born and raised here. I've lived in northwest Arkansas my entire life. And I am an avid Arkansas person. And on that day, it's not something you see every day, two people's feet sticking out the side of a car, wrestling around on the ground. And it was just a natural instinct to try and help. I didn't know what the situation was, but I knew on the side of the highway, two people fighting, probably not great. The odds of that turning out well were probably slim. And when I saw Miss Alex Duncan, I was even more worried. And I wanted to make sure that everybody came out of it okay. And I'm sorry. I'm a little nervous. I was just raised to take care of people when they need it.

 

Mike Hagar Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Members, Thank you from the bottom of my heart for recognizing Kylie. We expect our troopers every day to put themselves in harm's way to protect the citizens of Arkansas. We do not expect the citizens of Arkansas to put themselves in harm's way to protect a trooper. But to put this in context, on that day, Trooper Alex Duncan, who is one of my heroes-- she's a heck of a trooper, but she's five foot nothing, weighs 100 and nothing. And she is in a fight with a grown man on the side of the highway. 

And if you watch that video, you'll see, we counted more than 70 cars passed by as they are fighting on the shoulder of the interstate, right on the white line of the interstate. And to say things were in a desperate situation is an understatement. And then out of nowhere, one car of all the cars that had passed, one car pulls over and enter the frame of Kylie. And Kylie runs over, who is also, if you paid attention when she walked up, no offense, five foot nothing, 100 and nothing. 

And Kylie runs up and jumps on the back of a grown man, bear hugs him, and starts trying to pull him off this trooper. And to say that we are proud of Kylie and she is now part of our family. Her mother, Tammy Sutton, is with us also today. It's been an honor for me to get to know Kylie and her mom. It's been an honor for me to get to see the best of humanity. We say a lot of times in this job we have to witness the worst of humanity more days than not. 

But to be able to witness what Kylie did and the bravery that that took and the selflessness that that took for her to stop and intervene in that situation, I can't say enough about Kylie. She is absolutely one of my heroes. And I can't thank you guys enough for your continued support for our department. Your continued support for law and order and the fact that you're recognizing Kylie today means the world to not just me, but to the members of the State Police. So thank you very much.

 

Senator Josh Bryant I'd also like to note that Kylie is also the sole caregiver for her 94 year old grandfather, who is a former United States Marine. So semper fi to him. So therefore, Senate citation, 'Whereas on Saturday, July 27th, 2024, Miss Kylie Shea Sutton demonstrated outstanding courage, a rare selfless of conduct and an unfailing attention to the needs of a fellow human in the face of extreme circumstances as she provided unprompted assistance to a law enforcement officer. And whereas Ms. Sutton, while driving along Interstate 49, chose to stop her vehicle and come to the aid of Arkansas State Police Trooper Alexandria Duncan as she struggled in a physical altercation with a motorist. And whereas, the quick actions of Miss Sutton, taken without hesitation, played a crucial role in assisting Trooper Duncan and ensuring the motorist was apprehended. Ms. Sutton decided to help despite the obvious dangers when countless other passers by did not. Her actions, which made a tremendous impact, exemplify a true spirit of public service and her heroic regard for the well-being of others. And whereas, the members of the Arkansas Senate wish to join Senator Joshua Bryant in commending Kylie Shea Sutton for her outstanding conduct and wishing her well in all of her future endeavors. Pursuant to the motion of Senator Joshua Bryant, the Arkansas Senate directs this citation be presented on the 20th day of December, 2024. Will y'all thank her?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Thank you, Ms. Sutton, And thank you, Senator Bryant, for honoring her. So, members, I'm going to do something a little different today. We're at the end of a term, an end of an era. So with that, all non returning members, please join the witness table down front. We will give a few seconds for you guys to make your way down front. If Speaker Shepherd and Senator Hester could join me. 

So, guys, this will be their last legislative meeting of their career of this era. They may come back and join us because nowadays we can. But I think it's important that we honor them and honor their service. It's been awesome to work with you guys. And with that, I'll recognize Speaker Shepherd to give a small speech from the House.

 

Representative Matthew Shepherd Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I would just echo the chairman's comments. It's been an honor to serve with each and every one of you. I think that one of the things that I believe is somewhat unexpected probably when we all run for office is you don't realize how close you will become with your colleagues, regardless of political ideology, regardless of what part of the state we come from. And that's one of the great things, I think, about the Arkansas Legislature and one of the great things that I think that our citizens should be proud of is that, unlike many other legislative bodies across our country, that we can actually get along. We can disagree civilly and respectfully, that we can take votes in the best interest of the people of Arkansas, but yet we can still remain very close friends. 

And I, for one, and on behalf of the House, I'm going to miss each and every one of you. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your sacrifice. We all know that it's a tremendous commitment of time on your behalf, but also your families. And so we want to thank you for your service and look forward to all the things that you go on and do beyond your legislative service. So thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Bart Hester.

 

Senator Bart Hester Well, every member in this room has been touched by Linda Chesterfield. I can tell you the amount of times that I, as a freshman, decided to challenge her on parliamentary procedure and lost and now enjoy watching freshmen challenge her has been a fun time. But Linda is one of the best among us. She cares deeply. We disagree often, but she cares deeply about doing the right thing for her constituents. And something I believe is important, she understands what she believes and why she believes it. And Linda, you will be deeply missed. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw So, Members, a second part of this is this is also the last meeting that Speaker Shepherd will preside over the House, and we must honor him as well. And I might get emotional on this one. I can't tell you how big of an honor it's been to serve under you. And if you would, we would like to hear a few words as you walk out the door today. And, guys, he wasn't going to be here today. I want you to know it took me all week to convince him to be here today and how important it was to give him this honor today.

 

Representative Matthew Shepherd Well, I hope to be back January 13th. I don't know if he knows something I don't know. But, no, it's just been an honor to serve. Thank you to my colleagues in the House for entrusting me with with leadership of the House. Certainly, as I've said many times, when I first came to the House 14 years ago, I never would have thought that I would ever be the Speaker of the House, never set out to be the longest serving speaker. But that's just the way things developed. And I can say that it's been a great professional honor. 

And I know that all the things that we've gone through and every one of you has has been a part of that process, whether it was Covid or some of the political challenges we've had through the years. I'm really pleased with how we've conducted ourselves. Again, thank you for just a great honor. Thank you for your friendship, and I look forward to continuing to serve for another couple of years. But thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Thank y'all.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield I want a take a point of personal privilege. Nobody else does? Somebody told me, 'Immediate consideration.' [laughter] Mr. Chair, you are out of order. [laughter] I'm going to say this, and I've said it before. Thank you so very much. 

Each one of you represents unique individuals, but the totality of the state of Arkansas depends on you to do the right thing each and every day. We don't do it the same way. We don't say it the same way. But I not only believe in each of you, I believe in the institution of the General Assembly, both the House and the Senate. And it has been my honor to serve in both. We must protect the institution because it will be here much longer than any of us. 

We are supposed to be part time legislators. Well, that went out the window some time ago because we're here every day almost. But I hope we're here for the right reasons. And I think we are. I could have run again. But I was told not to miss my exit. I've done it for 20 years. I have tried to be faithful to the charge. I've tried to make sure that the relationships that I have developed over the years were not partisan, but personal. Knowing that Matthew and all of the speakers before him, the president pro tems who came before Bart-- I get on his case a lot of times because I want him to be the very best. I want each of you to be the very best. And I have fought hard and worked hard to be the very best that I can be. 

I don't want to ever go without saying thank you to staff. Our staff makes us look better than we deserve, and I think we ought to give them a hand. Relationships matter down here. Relationships matter because there are going to be times when you are going to get somebody's assistance just because of the relationship. And people don't understand it. But Mary Bentley and I have been friends for years and years now, and here we are, polar opposites on many things, but not friendship. 

And I say that to you because so many of you indulge in partisanship. You don't have the opportunity then to say to somebody, Let's go have a talk. How are you doing? How's your family? Little things like that matter. And if you forget those little things then this place is not going to be the place that it ought to be, where each of us gets together, each of us loves on each other a little bit. Because this is hard work. I thank you so much for the opportunity to serve. I thank the people of District 12. 

I thank my family for the sacrifice. And don't forget your family. So many times we come down here and people throw themselves at us because of what we do and not because of who we are. Never forget family. Because when you do, remember, you got to go home again. And we want to be able to go home again. God bless and keep each and every one of you is my prayer.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Members, we have one last person that's changing positions, and that is my co-chair, Senator Rice. And it will never be the same in Council again without him as chair. So members of you would join me in honoring Senator Rice's last day as chair. And his birthday yesterday.

 

Senator Terry Rice Let me say quickly before he tells me I can or can't. It's been an honor to serve as the Senate chair of Executive Subcommittee, as the co-chair to Council with Representative Wardlaw for the last four years. I've been down here 16 years. I served as vice chair for 10 years. So 14 out of 16 years, I've tried to be here all ALC week in all of that time because this institution means something to me. It means something to the people of Arkansas. 

And we each do our jobs in different ways. Senator Chesterfield, my good friend, says it better, but we have deep meaning to relationships. So thank you for allowing me to serve you as chair. I'll continue to be on Council, Lord willing, and I live four more years. And it does mean a lot to me. If I can be of help from any position I'm in, always let me know. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Thank you, Senator Rice. Members, with that, we still have one more item to take out of order. We're going to move on to the report of the Executive Subcommittee. Senator Rice, you're recognized.

 

Senator Terry Rice Thank, Mr. Chair. The Executive Subcommittee met on December 19, heard a presentation from co-chair Wardlaw on the final recommendations for the firearms study. The subcommittee adopted the final report and draft legislation, all of which are attached to the report in your package. Mr. Chair.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw So we will do something a little different with this report. We're going to recognize Chairman Miller of the Game Fish and State Police Subcommittee. Chairman Miller, you are recognized soon as you hit your button. There you go.

 

Representative Josh Miller All this technology got smarter than me and I had to quit. On October 17th, I presented the final report and draft legislation of the ALC Game & Fish State Police Subcommittee Firearms study to the Executive Subcommittee. The report included multiple recommendations set out in nine draft bills. The Executive Subcommittee voted at that meeting to adopt the recommendations and draft legislation under the procedures for this study that were adopted by ALC in August of 2023. 

Executive Subcommittee was tasked with considering the recommendations of the Game & Fish Subcommittee, making any revisions they felt were needed and then providing final recommendations to the full ALC. Executive supplemented the recommendations of the Game & Fish Subcommittee with the following two additions, which are included in your packet. JLC152, which is a bill to prohibit local government from regulating knives or knife making components. 

And Section 21 of JLC174, which amends Arkansas Code 11-5-117 to allow an employee of a private employer to store his or her handgun in his or her vehicle in the parking lot of a private employer. You have in your packet the reports of both the Executive Subcommittee and the Game & Fish Subcommittee, along with draft legislation as the final recommendations in the Firearms and Concealed Carry Laws Study of the ALC. I move for adoption of this report.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Thank you, Representative Miller.

 

Senator Terry Rice Included in this report also, the Executive Subcommittee also heard from Perr & Knight and approved release of two RFPs for selection of a captive manager and a broker related to the state property insurance study. Also, the subcommittee recommended approval of an amendment to the ALC Rules. A copy of the draft amendment is attached to this report and was sent to all ALC members last Friday, December 13th. The amendment changes the name and jurisdiction of the Hospital and Medicaid subcommittee to include developmental disabilities. Mr. Chair, I move adoption of this report except for the ALC Rules Management Amendment, which will be taken up in a separate motion.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That's a proper motion. Do I have a second? Have a second. Seeing no questions, all those in favor say aye. All opposed. Ayes have it. With that, we will move on to the second part of the motion.

 

Senator Terry Rice And Mr. Chair, I move adoption of the amendments to the ALC Rules.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Leding, do you have a question on the Rules?

 

Senator Greg Leding Yes, Mr. Chair. For those of us who weren't at the meeting yesterday and didn't hear the discussion, can you or Representative Ladyman just briefly explain why we're making this change?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw The request was made by Representative Ladyman and Representative Wooten. Representative Wooten, would you like to answer that question for him? You are recognized.

 

Representative Jim Wooten Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator, after the review, after we went through and discussed it, and several constituents and contacts have been made by people wanting to make sure that the disability people have representation through a committee. So that's what we were desiring to do, and also to be able to advocate for those people. And then for those members of that committee to evaluate those who are charged with going in to the facilities and making sure that the disability people are taken care of.

 

Senator Greg Leding Thank you.

 

Representative Jim Wooten Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Chesterfield, you are recognized.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, Representative Wooten, for the explanation. I've received numerous emails and text messages concerning this rule. And I'm one of those who believes that our disabled individuals must have the oversight that's necessary for them to thrive. But nevertheless, are these individuals getting state money, which seems to be a question. Explain that to me so that I'm able to explain to folks who are writing to me. I believe we need the oversight of them, but I'm trying to make sure that we are differentiating between the entity, the disability rights group, and our responsibility to the disabled. Am I making any sense to you? Help me get past that, please.

 

Representative Jim Wooten Yes, ma'am. Senator, That's what we're attempting to do.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield Would you speak into your mic? I can't hear you, sir.

 

Representative Jim Wooten Can you hear me now?

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield Yes, I can.

 

Representative Jim Wooten Okay. Yes. We're attempting to make sure that those who have disabilities are taken care of and looked over and that the rules and regulations that are in place for those institutions are followed. And what was your question about the state, the money?

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield I'm getting information from a disability rights group that says they receive only federal funding. Therefore, they're wondering why we are overseeing them. And I want the public to understand that it's not about that group. It is indeed, if I am correct, Mr. Chair, it is about the disabled as a population, rather than talking about a group of individuals that have taken on that responsibility. Am I correct, sir?

 

Representative Jim Wooten Yes, that is correct. It's not just aimed at them. It is to be sure, in all areas, that people with a challenge, that they are taken care of properly and it's seen over properly. I've had a lot of constituents, several, that have contacted me relative to some of the staffing situations, some of the compensation that's paid to them, and then some of the construction, maintenance, and upkeep that's needed for those institutions. So I would hope also that the committee would look into that and not just the advocacy part of it.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield I would certainly hope so, too, Mr. Chair. And I am speaking in favor of it. Having dealt with several family members who have disabilities, I am concerned that we don't have our rehab services fully staffed. And I think we need to be pushing for that as well, because rehab services is the entity in the state that provides so many services to individuals who have disabilities. So I would ask that we push to make sure that that is fully staffed because more and more people are using it as more and more people become aware of it. So I thank you for the rule and I thank you so very, very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

Representative Jim Wooten Thank you. Thank you, Senator. And thank you, Mr. Speaker.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Seeing no further questions, do I have a second? Okay. So, members, any time we have rules votes in ALC, we have to vote House and Senate. So I will be calling on the House first. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed. Ayes have it. Senate. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed. Ayes have it. Thank you. So we'll go back to our agenda. I need a motion on the minutes. I need a second. I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye? All opposed. Ayes have it. We'll go to the presentation of the revenue report. Dr. Silva.

 

Carlos Silva Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Carlos Silva, Bureau of Legislative Research. I'm your staff, and today I'm presenting the November 2024 revenue report. Adjusted gross revenues $3,249 million. That's a decline of $74.5 million from last fiscal year to date. It is a 2.2% decline. As we move down to net available for distribution, you have $2,737 million. That is a decline of $25.3 million or 0.9% compared to the first five months of the last fiscal year. 

As we look into the nearby states, there seems to be a similar trend as there's a decline from the previous fiscal year. But the actuals tend to be better than the estimates by a little bit. As we move to page number two, you're going to see the cumulative deviation from DFA net general revenue available for distribution forecast, and that's the updated forecast from the agency provided in November 2024. 

As we look, they're going to have a $10.9 million above the forecast. That is 0.4% above the forecast that they have provided for November up to now. As we move to page number three and number four, we're going to have general revenues. And from page number five, page number seven, we have the special revenues for the month of November and for that fiscal year up to now. With that, I'll take any further questions. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Seeing no questions from the members, thank you for your report, Dr. Silva. Members, with that, we'll move to the reports from the standing committees. Representative Evans, you are recognized for the Rules Committee.

 

Representative Brian Evans Thank you, Mr. Chair. Members, the Administrative Rules Subcommittee met on December 19th. The subcommittee received agency updates on outstanding rulemaking from the 2023 regular session and filed a written update relating to rulemaking from the 2024 Fiscal Session. At the joint request of the Departments of Agriculture, Energy and Environment, two rules were pulled from consideration prior to the meeting. The committee voted to not approve one rule from the Department of Commerce, State Insurance Department. All other rules were reviewed and approved, as noted in the report. Mr. Chair, I move for the adoption of this report.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That's a proper motion. I've got a second. But I've got Senator Johnson in the queue. You're recognized. Do you have a question or a motion, senator?

 

Senator Mark Johnson I have a substitute motion.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Okay. You're recognized.

 

Senator Mark Johnson I move that we pull Rule 128 from the report and vote on this rule separately.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That's a proper motion. Do I have a second? I have a second. All those in favor of pulling Rule 128 out and to adopt the report say aye. All those opposed? No's have it. Your motion has failed. I need three hands. I have plenty.

 

Marty Garrity Starting with the Senate. Representative Dotson. Representative Dotson is a no. I'm sorry, Senator Dotson. My apologies. Senator Payton. Senator Payton. Senator Payton is a no. Senator Petty. Senator Petty is yes. Senator Boyd. Senator Boyd is Yes. Senator Penzo. Senator Penzo. Senator Penzo is a yes. Senator McKee. Senator McKee is a yes. Senator Murdock. Senator Murdock. Senator King. Senator King is a yes. Senator Tucker. Senator Tucker is a yes. Senator Sullivan. Senator Sullivan is a yes. Senator Hammer. Senator Hammer is a yes. Senator Leding. Senator Leding is a yes. Senator Mark Johnson. Senator Mark Johnson is a yes. Senator Hill. Senator Hill is a no. Senator Davis. Senator Davis is a no. Senator Wallace. Senator Wallace is a yes. Senator Blake Johnson. Senator Blake Johnson is a yes. Senator Flippo. Senator Flippo is a no. Senator Hester. Senator Hester is a yes. Senator Hickey. Senator Hickey is a no. Senator Stubblefield. Senator Stubblefield is a no. Senator English. Senator English is a yes. Senator Caldwell. Senator Caldwell is a yes. Senator Dismang. Senator Dismang is a no. Senator Irvin. Senator Irvin is a no. Senator Chesterfield. Senator Chesterfield is a yes. Senator Gilmore. Senator Gilmore is a yes. I'm going to the House. Representative Painter. Representative painter is a yes. Representative McAlindon. Representative McAlindon not being here, I'm going to go to her first alternate, Representative McCollum. Representative McCollum. Going to the second alternate, Representative Hodges. Representative Hodges. Going to Representative Mark Berry. Representative Berry is a no. Representative Beaty. Representative Beaty is a yes. Representative Evans. Representative Evans is a no. Representative Collins. Representative Collins is a yes. Representative Garner. Representative Garner's a yes. Representative Crawford. Representative Crawford is a yes. Representative Dalby. Representative Dalby is a no. Representative Pilkington. Representative Pilkington is a yes. Representative Danny Watson. Representative Watson not being here, first alternate Representative Stan Berry. Representative Stan Berry is a yes. Representative Gazaway. Representative Gazaway. Representative Cavenaugh. Representative Cavenaugh is a no. Representative Fortner. Representative Fortner not being here, Representative Steimel. Representative Steimel not being here, we're going to go-- he has no second alternate. Going to Representative Vaught. Representative Vaught is a yes. Representative Kenneth Ferguson. Representative Kenneth Ferguson is a yes. Representative Beck. Representative Beck is a yes. Representative Bentley. Representative Bentley is a yes. Representative Ladyman. Representative Ladyman not being here, Representative Long. Representative Long not being here, Representative Joey Carr as the second alternate. Going on to the next member, Representative McNair. Representative McNair is a yes. Representative Eaves.

 

Representative Les Eaves I have no idea.

 

Marty Garrity Representative Eaves has no idea.[laughter] Representative Eaves is a yes. Representative Deborah Ferguson. Representative Ferguson not being here, Representative Moore as her first alternate. Representative Moore not being here, Representative Pearce as a second alternate. Going on to the next member, Representative David Whitaker. Representative Whitaker is a yes. Representative Charlene Fite. Representative Charlene Fite is a yes. Representative Womack. Representative Womack. Representative Miller. Representative Miller is a yes. Representative Eubanks. Representative Eubanks is a no. Representative Shepherd.  Sorry. Speaker Shepherd is a yes. Representative Jean. Representative Jean is a yes. Representative Meeks. Representative Meeks is a no. Representative Cozart. Representative Cozart is a no. Representative Wardlaw is a no.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Motion passes. So, Senator Chesterfield, you're the last person I thought I'd have to tell not to do that. So with that, members, the report passes, so we'll hear Pharmacy Rule 128 separately. So with that, if we could get the department to the table to present the rule. Senator Irvin, you got a question before we start the presentation? Members, keep our discussion to a minimum.

 

Senator Missy Irvin Mr. Chair, just a point of clarification. Are the membership going to have access to all of the handouts and the public comment that the Insurance and Commerce Committee had access to and the Rules Subcommittee had access to? Do we have that in our packet? Or I feel like if we're going to have this third debate that all members present should have access to all of the information that was presented at both Rules Subcommittee and Insurance and Commerce Committee so that they can make an informed decision. Do we have that?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw All of that is in your attachments today from the committee. And it is online for access by any member.

 

Senator Missy Irvin Where is that in our packet?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw So it's not all on paper, Senator. It's all online under the committee selections. We can't print everything from every subcommittee. That's online. Yep.

 

Senator Missy Irvin Okay.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw With that, you guys introduce yourselves for the record and you're recognized to present.

 

Booth Rand Booth Rand, General Counsel, Arkansas Insurance Department.

 

Alan McClain Alan McClain, Arkansas Insurance Commissioner.

 

Alison Hatfield Alison Hatfield, Chief of Staff, Commerce.

 

Jake Windley Jake Windley, Commerce, Director of Legislative Affairs.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw So my board's already lit up. So, members, here's the deal. We've done this two times already this week. I'm going to recognize two more members. I'm pretty sure they have motions. I'm not going to decide anything in this thing. Y'all are. So I'm not going to not take any motions. So, members, I guess put your seatbelt on and get ready. Here we go. Senator Hester, you're the first one in the queue, so I'll come to you first.

 

Senator Bart Hester Hey, members, we've had endless debate on this this week. We've had two opportunities and hours upon hours upon hours to rehash this. With that, I make a motion to call the question right now for immediate consideration.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That's a proper motion. And a second. That's a simple majority of the quorum. All those in favor say aye? All opposed? Ayes have it. So, members, we are in immediate consideration on the issue at hand on Rule 128. The motion is to adopt the recommendation of Rule 128. [side discussion] That's true. Okay, members, here comes the caveat to this. The motion was to pull it out and adopt it separately, correct? The motion coming from the subcommittee is the question that Senator Hester has immediate considered. That motion is to adopt the recommendation not to approve Rule 128. So that is the vote at hand. All those in favor say aye? All those opposed? No. No's have it. Senator Chesterfield, you are recognized.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield Yes. I moved to adopt Rule 128.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That's a proper motion. That's a second. I have two questions in the queue for that motion. Or I have one.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield I'd like to speak to it first.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw I'll let you speak first.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I shan't belabor this. We've heard it over and over again and we have the opportunity to look at all of the debates and all of that. We're losing pharmacies across this state. And we're losing pharmacies across this state simply because they are not reimbursed at a rate that will allow them to thrive. As one of those individuals who takes advantage of local pharmacy, it's not big pharma, that is not a chain pharmacy, that does not send stuff through the mail, I believe that we have got to save these pharmacies. And I would appreciate a good vote.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator, are you willing to take questions on your motion? Senator Dismang, you are recognized.

 

Senator Jonathan Dismang I don't have a question. I'd like to speak to the motion when we get to that point.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw You are recognized. This is the proper time.

 

Senator Jonathan Dismang And really just because I think it needs to be on record and said-- and I'm sorry that we didn't get to have debate or more discussion-- as those that have sat in both the Insurance and Commerce Committee and then also sat in the Rules Committee are well aware, this is not a very simple issue. One of the things I'd just like to say, because I think it needs to be said, it needs to be understood by the public, is-- I can see where this is going today, and I understand that-- but false hope is a very dangerous thing. And we are giving pharmacists across this state false hope that a department that has not been able to do its job in the last five years in regards to many issues related to PBMs are somehow going to be able to better create contracts between PBMs and pharmacists. 

The Insurance Department has the ability and has had the ability to gather the information needed to get a better understanding of what is fair and reasonable and then also what is an adequate network. They have chosen not to do that. They purported to us that there had to be a rule to be able to have the authority to gather that information. That was incorrect. It was specifically stated in the law that they had the authority to gather that information. 

I am afraid and I firmly believe what's going to happen is, again, we have given false hope to the pharmacists across this state that somehow something is going to be fixed by what we're passing. But what I guarantee you we have done, is we are intruding on contracts between businesses and individuals or companies. And we are saying as the government, we will know better. I've never really thought that to be my job here. But today we're saying that's what we're responsible for. 

I am all for, and I want to say this because I think it needs to be said, holding PBMs accountable when they need to be held accountable. We passed laws that allow our Insurance Department to do that very thing. The last time the Insurance Department has taken on that task to look at how payments were being made to affiliated companies was in 2020, five years ago, a half a decade ago. And we're expecting that we're going to give them unknown power to intervene in contracts and they're somehow going to be able to satisfy that task. That seems ludicrous to me. 

And so I'd just like to say I apologize to the pharmacists across this state. What we're doing today is a disservice. Your association that is putting forward this is doing you a disservice. And they are giving you false hope with an outcome that will not realize what you're actually after, which is to hold PBMs accountable. 

In their own testimony, the Insurance Department acknowledged that this does not tackle the issues that they're having with PBMs, though we're passing it because we are being told it does. Those two things conflict. Both of those things cannot be true at the same time. Either it does or it doesn't. And they said at the table multiple times, It does not. So again, I understand where we're headed and what you're doing. But it's an unfortunate situation we're in right now to be making a decision and doing something that will not accomplish the goal. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw So, members, bear with me. Senator Dotson, you are recognized. We have a new computer today, so I'm trying to learn this thing.

 

Senator Jim Dotson Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I'm going to ask for clarity on the motion at hand, because I'm still not entirely certain where we're going. But that'll be at the end of my statement here. Looking through this, I have read this rule backwards and forwards and even asked the Insurance Department yesterday basically what the fee is going to be, what the fee is going to be on each prescription that is put out in the state. And the answer is they don't know. They don't know because they haven't reviewed the plans yet. 

The dispensing fee could be different per health payer, per insurance contract that's out there. It can range from $0 to $10.50. If I'm understanding correctly, that's the maximum amount. So for each prescription, it could be up to $10.50, but they'll make that determination year over year. And of course, we don't have a metric on how that determination will be made. So that's not been determined yet. We'll find that out after the rule passes. 

But this will have a real impact on each of our constituents every time they go to the pharmacy every month. They will have to pay a dispensing fee, maybe. Next year, it might be different. And when I asked the question what the insurance commissioner successor would do, he could not answer that because it's a question none of us can answer. We don't know what the future holds, but we will be empowering one individual to make a dispensing fee determination annually on a plan by plan basis. 

It's literally government picking winners and losers. And I don't see how that's fair or reasonable to anybody. And it doesn't solve the problem of access to pharmacies across the state. So I need to know from the chair how to vote to be opposed to this rule. Is it a yes vote? Is this deemed approved without objection? And is this for an objection or is this an adoption? Is it a yes or no to be opposed to this?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw The proper way to handle this is I will call for, "Without objection, this rule stands." Then I would need an objection, and then we will take a vote on the rule itself.

 

Senator Jim Dotson Okay. Well, I object.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Well, at the proper time, I'll come to you. And for the record, on Council day, we only recognize members of Council. And I do have some nonmembers with their microphones on. I will not be lighting those microphones up. So I'm just giving a heads up before we get there. Senator Irvin, you're recognized.

 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I think it's really, really critical and important that people know what they're voting on with this rule. You are ceding your authority to an agency and a director to impose a penalty and a tax on your patients that you represent. 

This is a pharmacy tax that will be paid at the point of sale through an increased co-payment on every single prescription. So if you get five prescriptions, that's going to be $50 just for a dispensing fee on every single one of those medications. That is a tax that is going to be given and dictated to, not by legislative authority, but by one person's opinion on metrics and data that we still do not have. 

And that is from testimony given by the Insurance Department that they agreed with the public comment of the many, many businesses that are private businesses who have self-insured plans, whose cost is going to go up dramatically because of this determination, which is subjective, and that's going to get passed down straight to the patients at the point of sale with an increased copayment or dispensing fee that they're going to have to pay. So for a $4 generic drug at Wal Mart, now you're going to have to pay $4 for the drug and $10.50 for the dispensing fee. 

Whenever I've talked to my constituents, they think that's ludicrous. I'm not going to vote for a tax increase on the people I represent without it being explicitly stated in legislation. And I'm sure not going to cede my authority as a legislator who can vote on these matters over to an agency director based on something I have no idea how they're going to make that determination or decision. 

It should be written explicitly in the legislation if you know you're voting on a tax increase or a fee increase or not. And that is not what we are talking about here. The legislative authority that they are trying to base this rule on is saying that they can get there through a rate. A rate we understand. This is not a rate. This is absolutely something brand new. And where does it stop? What other industry out there that government is now price fixing and price controlling on for-profit entities to make another for-profit entity a guaranteed profit. That is not the role of government. 

The government should not pick winners and losers. The government should not say, you're a winner and you have to pay them a guaranteed profit. And I'm sorry, but to say that this is going to just help independent, no. Actually, I think it's going to hurt independent pharmacies because you're going to give so much more money to the box chains through this because they also get the guaranteed profit that, in the aggregate, they're going to put those independent pharmacies out of business. I heard from a rural pharmacist who's opposed to the rule saying, no, you're giving them a huge market advantage. And that's not the role of government, at least not for me. I am a limited government, free market enterprise person, and I don't believe that price controls and price fixing is the same as regulatory authority. 

And I am solidly opposed to this. I think that you can believe the spin that's been told to you or you can look at your eye test and understand and read the rule and read the legislation and understand that this is not solving the problem of the PBMs. It's not. This is a direct tax on the people you represent. They are going to have to pay for it when they pick up every single prescription. And for a state employee case worker and a social worker that's a state employee on our health benefit plan, which we got a fiscal analysis of, which is going to cost EBD an additional 12 million, maybe even more. 

That's going to be a hit to the state budget. This is going to affect all the Medicaid-- two of the major Medicaid programs is going to be affected. We don't know what that cost is going to be. They are not excluded from this. So you're going to have increased spend in Medicaid. You're going to have an increase in EBD. Where are you going to find that money? Guess what? You're not going to be able to cut the income tax, guys. Ain't gonna happen. When you start to pile up and vote for policy that's going to have a huge impact to the budget, leave a hole in it, and Medicaid budget, it's not going to happen. 

So if you want to vote for a penalty tax, a pharmacy tax for every patient at the point of sale, and a state employee making $36,000 as a social worker is now going to have to pay this dispensing fee every time they pick up a prescription, that's on you. I'm not voting for that. And I would appreciate a no vote on this rule.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Hickey, you are recognized.

 

Senator Jimmy Hickey Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Members, I have to assume here that this is a large committee. And I don’t want to make the assumption that every one of you understand exactly what's going on. Mr. Chair, there's a lot of talk going on down here. Could I get some-- I want to make sure that people understand this.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Carry your discussions outside, please. Keep the respect level high.

 

Senator Jimmy Hickey Thank you, sir. Senator Irvin hit on it and I'm going to try to keep this brief. But in testimony, what we have heard is that this rule does not line up with the statute that the General Assembly passed while in session that I was part of. It really doesn't matter, if you think that through, whether or not you're for this or against this, the people put a constitutional amendment on after the fact to make sure that we make sure that our rules align with statute.

 It's already been testified by the Insurance Department that they don't have the ability, they don't think, under the current statute to do that. So what we are doing is we are totally circumventing the General Assembly while we were in session. In addition to that, I also know a lot of my members never want to think that there's a tax involved. As chair of Revenue and Tax, this may be a horse of a different color, but I will tell you right now, I know a tax when I see a tax. Now, you might say, well, it's not coming into the state or whatever, but this is a tax on your citizens and it's just like special revenue that's going to flow to those pharmacies. That's what this is. 

And Mr. Chair, I've already heard that you're going to get an objection. If this body, which is not correct, in my opinion-- I know it's not. If we're going to act like the General Assembly, then I want it to be the same way that it is on the floor in the House and Senate. I want those votes to be recorded on this. Because whenever it comes time for me to tell my constituents why they now have a co-pay that has went up on their prescriptions, I want to be able to show specifically Jimmy Hickey voted this way. Now, if some of you choose to do the other, that's up to you. That's the way we do it there. We should not be hearing this in this forum. 

So anyway, again, Mr. Chair, I'm going to go ahead and make that request. I know it may not be the appropriate time, but I also don't want it to get lost. And whatever the process is that we need, I want to start that also at the appropriate time.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Noted, Senator Hickey. Senator Johnson, you are recognized for discussion or questions on the motion.

 

Senator Mark Johnson Discussion, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think it's interesting that Senator Hickey brings up the Constitution and our rulemaking authority and how it must jive with the Constitution. I can't help, I always go back when I read. Article 2, Section 19 of the Constitution says, and this is a quote, 'Perpetuities and monopolies are contrary to the genius of a republic and shall not be allowed.' And that is exactly what we're dealing with here. We're once again fighting an antitrust battle against a very strong, powerful, wealthy, vertically integrated monopoly. 

And through our system, our statutes and our authority that we vest in the Insurance Department and the commissioner to regulate this industry for the protection of the market and for individual consumers. And I'm glad it's Friday with the fish because of all the red herrings that I've heard on this issue. But the fact of the matter is we regulate at the state level, probably more so than any other industry that's not much regulated at the federal level, but at the state level, we regulate insurance. 

And we have a commissioner who has an excellent staff. We're not going to lower drug prices by this rule. Make no mistake about it. We have an inflationary environment. We have big pharma. The sky's the limit on all the things that we could do to maybe help bring health care costs under control and drug prices. But this rule simply extends the emergency power that the commissioner has to protect the market until we can come back-- and I make no bones about it-- this issue will be revisited. You've already heard from three members of the Insurance and Commerce Committee, the incoming Insurance and Commerce Committee. 

I fully expect to see legislation and I look forward to vigorous debate because I think that's how we get a good product. But when I hear things that we've seen this week-- this been a long week, folks. Those of you who have sat through all this, I applaud you for your tenacity. I heard ad hominem attack on a member of the staff because he brought up an antitrust example of over 100 years ago with Standard Oil. Standard Oil was another vertically integrated monopoly that operated to the detriment of the general public and literally to the detriment of the republic. And through antitrust laws and the Supreme Court's decisions, that monopoly was busted up. 

Now we're dealing with what I liken to whack a mole when we're dealing with the PBMs. We wrote a law that became the model for the nation. It went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. And it was approved 8-0 and Arkansas won. And we were the leader in this. I'm proud of us being the leader in this. But this battle won't end. You're dealing with a very wealthy monopoly that is taking advantage of consumers and indirectly hurting some areas of our state and our nation more so than others. 

This is not a perfect rule. It doesn't solve all the problems. It's important that we do it. We continue. We're going to keep playing Whac-A-Mole with these guys and hopefully our net result will be, not lower drug prices per se, but more fair and equitable treatment of each consumer when they go to a pharmacy and fair reimbursement that will keep our pharmacists who are on the cutting edge of of health care. Sometimes in some communities, the only health care facility that we have. 

So I urge and I would ask, Mr. Chairman, if you would, before the vote, would clarify exactly parliamentary wise, what the rule is. I believe the proper vote will be to approve the rule. That would probably be a yes vote. But, Mr. Chairman, thank you. And I ask you to clarify that before the vote is called.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw I appreciate you all making my last day as chairman maybe the funnest. Senator Chesterfield, you're recognized.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield I move immediate consideration.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That's not a proper motion. And here's why. Because the procedures on a rule are to move forward, without objection, set forth in the Constitution. So you can't make a presumptuous motion to adopt a rule.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield I love your use of that word. [laughter]

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw I'm here for you.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield Presumptuous. You go, Jeff. [laughter]

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw I'm here for you. But I appreciate your try. And I really do wish we could take it, but I can't. So with that, do you have any discussion?

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield I yield, Mr. Chair.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Representative Eubanks is recognized.

 

Representative Jon Eubanks Thank you, Mr. Chair. First off, I want to say that I supported the legislation that we passed several years ago with regard to regulating the PBMs. I truly believe they're predatory. And I don't support how they conduct their business and how they treat our independent pharmacies. As a contract poultry grower for 38 years, I'm pretty familiar with vertical integration and how that can be abused at times. 

At the same time, unless I missed some of the testimony, I have not heard of any PBMs that have testified in opposition to the rule. And I suspect that's because this is a pass through to the consumer. And so I believe we're going to pay for it individually through a higher cost at our pharmacy or through higher premiums or both. I am sympathetic to the plight that the pharmacies are dealing with. I just don't believe that this is the proper way to handle this issue. I do believe it is, you can call it a fee, a tax or whatever. 

It's going to be increased costs to consumers. I do believe we gave the insurance department the authority to investigate these PBMs and to hold them accountable. And so I would ask the members to vote no on this and let us deal with this if necessary in legislation or require the Insurance Department to fulfill their responsibilities. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Representative Eubanks, I can't help it, but I'm going to comment to your comments. I had staff go back and look through all the comments in the committees and the public comment period. And there were two times that a PBM or a PBM affiliate commented. Neither time, and you're welcome to the comments, neither time were those comments particularly negative. And here's the assumption that I draw from that. Any time money pass through anyone's hands, they withhold a percentage of that money. So I think what you're doing here is you're actually letting the PBMs make more money because money will pass through their hands to the pharmacies. So that's my two cents. Senator Hammer, you're recognized.

 

Senator Kim Hammer Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of thoughts to add to the decision. First of all, there's only going to be an increase in the dispensing fee if it's determined that they're breaking the law. To determine if they're breaking the law, you've got to have the data. If you look at a report that was handed out in the meeting, it was full of words such as incomplete, etc., even though a conclusion was given as far as an opinion. So I think there's uncertainty on both sides of the issue as to who do you believe in this as to whether it's going to increase the cost. 

At the end of the day, also, I think that just because a pharmacy is allowed to add a dispensing fee, the free market enterprise will still work. Because if my fees increase at my local pharmacy, I'm going to ask them, Is this because you're charging me a dispensing fee and can you waive that? And we put that latitude in the hands of the local pharmacy. I'm not thinking about the here and now because we're going to come into session and I feel reasonably sure that PBMs are probably going to be somewhat prohibited from doing business in the state anyway. And we will address that within the next 30 to 60 days. This is a chess move and this is a move on the chess board to get the PBMs to be fair and upright. 

Because right now, if you think there's free market enterprise, why are attorney generals across the nation looking at suing the PBMs because of the unfair trade practices? That should communicate to us an underlying message that they are not playing fair. And if we want to see our independent pharmacies-- and it's not just the independents. I had a CVS go out of business in my district, followed by a local large independent pharmacy that went out of business, reason being that they got choked out on their cash flow because what the PBMs are doing to them. 

Will this solve the problem? No. But will this help keep our pharmacies in business? We've already seen 40 go out. I think there are a couple that are on the verge of going out. And I think what we are doing is buying time until we can get into the general session and send a message to the PBMs, Don't shut the door behind you or we will shut it for you when we kick you out. Because hopefully this will send a message to them. 

It will give our agency director the tools they need in order to be able to continue to put pressure on them until we can take the next move. Is it a tax increase? I would not frame it as a tax increase. I would frame it as an opportunity for local pharmacies to survive and let them explain to their customers why they're adding that fee. But it would only be after it was determined that the PBM is breaking the law. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Boyd, you are recognized.

 

Senator Justin Boyd Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've got a few comments here. So first of all, this rule, this is what our insurance commissioner says he needs to enforce the current law. So that's why we're here. That's why we're voting on this, is because this is what I understand that he says we need. 

Second of all, I'm disappointed with some of the misinformation that is being said by my colleagues there. To quote, This affects every single prescription. This, in fact, does not affect every single prescription. There are a lot it doesn't. For instance, if you have a $4 prescription somewhere, you go in and you pay cash for this, there's nothing in this rule that affects that transaction. There's nothing in this rule that says the cash market cannot work. This is only the market that is primarily self-insured plans. 

It does not affect Medicare. So if you're on Medicare, this rule will in no way impact you. I think that's very, very important for the public to know and understand. If you're in Tricare, this rule does not affect you in any form or fashion. So to say that this affects every single prescription is just false. It's misleading information. 

Now, let me tell you about a tax. By not passing this and continuing the status quo, what will be a tax is the continued rise in prescription drug cost. We have the highest level of prescription drug costs in the entire world. And a big part of that is the PBMs, the pharmacy benefit managers, who also either they own an insurance company, the big ones, or the insurance company owns them, so they're one in the same. 

So as long as we continue to allow preferred networks directing our clients presumptively to what they think is the better deal to a higher price, that's what's driving up costs. So for us to sit here and call this a tax, I just think is incorrect. I think it's misinformation and it's disappointing. So a no vote, if you vote to not approve this rule, that's going to continue to empower insurance companies to manipulate the markets in a way that's going to continue to raise prices. 

I fully believe that this rule is a step in that direction to actually help control costs, not add a suppose a tax on Arkansans. I agree that would be problematic. I don't believe that's what this does. So the other thing is, is maybe PBMs, pharmacy benefit managers, insurance companies don't testify because they don't want to be asked to produce their tax returns. I don't know. But that's something that's happened right here in this legislature. We've asked our citizens to produce their tax returns. So I hope you will join me in voting to support Rule 128. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Representative Garner, you're recognized for comment or questions.

 

Representative Denise Garner Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I'll be brief because a lot of the comments have been made. Thank you, Senator Hammer and Senator Boyd. But I just want to reiterate that Rule 128 is an emergency rule for a reason. 40 pharmacies, 40, have closed in Arkansas in the last two years. The issues related to the contracts obviously are complex and we've got to pay attention and address these and likely will in future sessions. 

But it is an emergency rule for a reason, and doing nothing will ensure that our local independent pharmacies will be in jeopardy. Chain pharmacies will continue to close. Reimbursements will continue to bankrupt our pharmacies, and PBMs will continue to use their unfair advantage against the pharmacies that serve every one of our constituents. So I just hope that you will consider the comments that have been made by pharmacists, by folks that work with these rules and vote for the emergency rule to continue. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Irvin, you are recognized.

 

Senator Missy Irvin Just for the record, I wanted to say that the Board of Pharmacy testified that there were six closures, not 40. I was the Pharmacist Association that said the 40. The Board of Pharmacy said six. There's a discrepancy. Go back and look at the testimony of what was given to Insurance and Commerce Committee and to the Rules Subcommittee. That's important information that needs to be clarified. It was also in the testimony by the Insurance Department and in the public comments that this would be passed down straight to the patient. It would be passed down to the patient. 

So, yes, that is a tax. You may disagree, but I see that a fee is a tax. I'm not for fee increases. I'm not for tax increases. I'm not for that. That is the way it is written. It is an introduction of a new assessment. It's not a reimbursement rate. Reimbursement rates are not something that is negotiated by a patient. If you want to penalize the PBMs, you have the ability to do that. Then they're writing the front side of that check, not the patient. I fully support what Representative Eubanks said. This is not about the PBMs. They're not going to be harmed by this at all. This does not affect--

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator.

 

Senator Missy Irvin --any of that. But I just wanted to correct the record to say that the testimony was six, not 40.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Hill, you're recognized.

 

Senator Ricky Hill Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just going to kind of go along with what Senator Irvin was just saying about the number of pharmacies. It was reported at one of our meetings that it was actually six, a discrepancy between the two. Because the one that said it was six closed said they did not consider sales mergers, that they were looking at just pharmacies that were closed down. So thank you for bringing that up, Senator Irvin. 

I want all the colleagues here to think about their constituents out here who have high deductibles. Some have $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 deductible, some as high as $12,000. When you have a deductible that's that high, the consumer pays 100% because all your expenses go to your deductible. And so at that point, call it what you want to, we are increasing the fee. I'll use the word that everyone likes to use because they don't like the word tax. I'll use the word fee. We're increasing the fee on the working class people of the state of Arkansas. So the people who are paying tax dollars for us to be down here, we're fixing to penalize them with a fee on their medicine. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw So, members, that's the end of discussion. So I want to explain the process before we move forward, because this is very confusing. I'm going to do this one time very slow, so everybody please pay attention. I'm not being funny and I'm not being mean, but this is very confusing. I am going to say, "Without objection, Pharmacy Rule 128 is adopted." 

I have an objection already lit up in the queue. When he objects, we have to take a vote on the objection. So whether we adopt the objection or not: If the objection is adopted, we will then take another vote on the adoption of Rule 128. Are there any questions on the procedure I have explained now? Okay. Senator Chesterfield, you're recognized for discussion on the procedure only. I got you. I'm not going anywhere.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield All right, Mr. Chair, let me be clear. Let me make sure that I'm clear. If there is an objection-- and there already is-- if the individual objects, the vote that we take, is that going to be to sustain the objection or not?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw It is going to be that exactly. You will vote yes to agree with the objection, No to not agree with the objection.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield So if we're voting no, we want to proceed with passing Rule 128?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Yes.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield So a no vote would be in order for those who support it. And a yes vote would be for those who do not. Is that correct?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw It depends on what his objection is. But currently my--

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield We already know.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw My future seeing of the objection, you and I are correct.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield Yes. All right. I just want to make sure and, you know, I'm a senior citizen. I have to make sure. I'm not as quick as I was.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw I'm right there with you.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield All right. Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Hickey, you're recognized for a question on the procedure.

 

Senator Jimmy Hickey Yes, sir. My question is, could you do this-- let's move very slowly in this so that every member gets to vote the way that they want to vote.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Agreed.

 

Senator Jimmy Hickey So my thing would be, before we do any vote, if we could just state to the members, so each and every one of them know, including me, yes means this, no means that.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That will be done.

 

Senator Jimmy Hickey Thank you, sir.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw So, members, without objection, Pharmacy Rule 128 stands approved. I have Senator Dotson in the queue with an objection.

 

Senator Jim Dotson Mr. Chair, I object and move to request a vote regarding the issue of not approving this rule.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That is a proper objection. So do I have a second on the objection? I have a second from Senator Hill. So, members-- Senator Chesterfield, I'll take your question first.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield You know, there's one thing to object and there's one thing to object and then make a motion at the same time.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw He has to state his objection.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield I understand he stated his objection. But he also made a motion to not adopt Rule 128. And that's a whole other matter. So if we vote yes on this-- I need him to state that over again so that we may be sure.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw If you will have a little patience, I'm not going to take a vote without explaining it. So hold on one second, please.

 

Senator Linda Chesterfield You know, patience is not my law.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw I understand. Grab you a piece of gum. His motion, his objection is very proper. It is listed actually the way he stated it in the rules. So with that, a yes vote would mean that you agree with the objection. That's right. You're agreeing with the objection to then take a vote, as I explained earlier, on the not approval of the rule. A no vote would mean that you don't agree with the objection and you want the rule to stand as it is. So is anyone unclear? [discussion off-mic] I have already declared his motion was proper and that it is stated that way in the rules. Yes. Senator Hammer, do you have a question on the procedure?

 

Senator Kim Hammer Mr. Chair, would you just repeat the motion, please, or could you have him repeat it?

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw His objection is to object to the rule and for non approval of the rule.

 

Senator Kim Hammer Thank you.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw That is his objection. Senator Dotson, did I mess that up? All right. All those in favor of the objection, say aye. All those opposed. I rule the no's have it. I see one hand, two hands. I have the hands. So we'll call the roll.

 

Marty Garrity Representative Painter. Representative Painter is no. Representative  McAlindon. Representative McAlindon not being here, going to first alternate Representative McCollum. Representative McCollum not being here, going to second alternate Representative Hodges. Representative Hodges votes no. Representative Mark Berry. Representative Mark Berry votes present. Representative Beaty. Representative Beaty votes no. Representative  Evans. Representative Evans votes yes. Representative Collins. Representative Collins votes no. Representative Garner. Representative Garner votes no. Representative Crawford. Representative Crawford votes no. Representative Dalby. Representative Dalby votes yes. Representative Pilkington. Representative Pilkington votes no. Representative Watson. Representative Watson not being here, going to first alternate Representative Stan Berry. Representative Stan Berry votes yes. Representative Gazaway. Going to the next member, Representative Cavenaugh. Representative Cavenaugh votes yes. Representative Fortner. Representative Fortner not being here, going to first alternate Representative Steimel. Going to the next vote, Representative Vaught. Representative Vaught votes yes. Representative Kenneth Ferguson. Representative Kenneth Ferguson votes no. Representative Beck. Representative Beck votes yes. Representative Bentley. Representative  Bentley votes no. Representative Ladyman. Representative Ladyman not being here, going to first alternate Representative Long. Representative Long not being here, going to second alternate Representative Joey Carr. Going to the next member, Representative McNair. Representative McNair votes yes. Representative Eaves. Representative Eaves votes no. Representative Ferguson. Going to first alternate Representative Moore. Going to second alternate Representative Pearce. Going to the next member, Representative Whitaker. Representative Charlene Fite. Representative Womack. Representative Miller. Representative Josh Miller. Representative Eubanks. Representative Eubanks votes yes. Representative Shepherd. Representative Shepherd votes no. Representative Jean. Representative Jean votes yes. Representative Meeks. Representative Meeks votes no. Representative Cozart. Representative Cozart. Representative Wardlaw votes yes. Going to the Senate. Senator Dotson. Senator Dotson votes yes. Senator Payton. Senator Payton votes no. Senator Petty. Senator Patty votes no. Senator Boyd. Senator Boyd votes no. Senator Penzo. Senator Penzo votes no. Senator McKee. Senator McKee votes no. Senator Murdock. Going to the next member. Senator King. Senator King votes no. Senator Tucker. Senator Tucker votes no. Senator Sullivan. Senator Sullivan votes no. Senator Hammer. Senator Hammer votes no. Senator Leding. Senator Leding votes no. Senator Mark Johnson. Senator Mark Johnson votes no. Senator Hill. Senator Hill votes yes. Senator Davis. Senator Davis votes yes. Senator Wallace. Senator Wallace votes no. Senator Blake Johnson. Senator Blake Johnson votes no. Senator Flippo. Senator Flippo votes yes. Senator Hester. Senator Hester votes no. Senator Hickey. Senator Hickey votes yes. Senator Stubblefield. Senator Stubblefield votes yes. Senator English. Senator English votes no. Senator Caldwell. Senator Caldwell votes no. Senator Dismang. Senator Dismang votes yes. Senator Irvin. Senator Irvin votes yes. Senator Chesterfield. Senator Chesterfield votes no. Senator Gilmore. Senator Gilmore votes no.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Motion fails. Rule 128 is adopted. So, members, with that, let me find my agenda here in all the roll call sheets. We will move on to claims review and litigation reports. Representative DeAnn Vaught.

 

Representative DeAnn Vaught The Claims Review Litigation Report Oversight Committee met on Thursday, December 19, 2024. The subcommittee reviewed two litigation reports and one litigation settlement. The subcommittee affirmed the ruling of the Claims Commission as to four awarded claims, three denied and dismissed claims and one negotiated settlement agreement. The subcommittee reversed the decision of the Claims Commission concerning one awarded claim. The subcommittee amended the decision of the Claims Commission concerning one awarded claim as outlined in the report. I move adoption of the report.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw It is a proper motion. Do I have a second? I have a second. All those in favor say aye. All opposed. Ayes have it. We will move on to the Employee Benefits Division. Senator Hickey, you're recognized.

 

Senator Jimmy Hickey Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Employee Benefits Division Oversight Committee met on Wednesday. The subcommittee reviewed and approved the following actions of the State Board of Finance, including EBD formulary and medical drug recommendations for December 2024, EBD contract with Catalyze Health-- I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly-- Incorporated and employer contributions for Plan Year 2025. The subcommittee heard a presentation by Patrick Klein of the Segal Group regarding fiscal impact statements for number one, UnitedHealth Medicare Advantage prescription drug rate increase, removal of a specified budget on vacant positions, and also this emergency rule 128 that was just heard. I move for adoption of the report.

 

Senator Terry Rice I have a motion. Seeing no questions, do I have a second? A second. All in favor say aye. Opposed. Going to number 7, Highway Commission Review and Advisory. Senator Blake Johnson, you're recognized.

 

Senator Blake Johnson The Highway Commission Review and Advisory Subcommittee met Wednesday and heard testimony on the efficiency study recommendation rules for implementation, Quarterly Land Conveyances report, annual expenditures, Revenues Report, proposed legislation, Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act report, and a report of the highway construction projects of $10 million or more. I move adoption of the report, Chairman.

 

Senator Terry Rice We have an adoption. Seeing no question, do I have a second? Second. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Report is adopted. Hospital and Medicaid Study. Senator Irvin, you're recognized.

 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you, Mr. Chair. Pursuant to Act 512 of 2023, the Joint Committee on Public Health, Welfare and Labor met over a period of months to discuss topics including, but not limited to, existing mental and behavioral health facilities, the status and future of crisis stabilization units. Okay. Sorry. The Hospital Medicaid Study subcommittee met on Monday to review recommendations made by the Senate and House committees on Public health, Welfare and Labor to approve the prior authorization proposals submitted pursuant to Act 575 of 2023. The Hospital Medicaid Study Subcommittee approved the recommendations. The subcommittee also approved a prior authorization proposal submitted by AmBetter without recommendation from the Public Health Committees. I move adoption of the report.

 

Senator Terry Rice Thank you. Seeing no questions, I have a second. All in favor say aye. Opposed. Thank you. Lottery Oversight. Senator Caldwell, you are recognized.

 

Senator Ronald Caldwell Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Lottery Oversight subcommittee met Tuesday and heard testimony regarding the Office of Arkansas Lottery Commission and Director's Report, Arkansas Division of Higher Education Scholarship Recipients report and received recommendations for the Arkansas Academic Challenge Scholarship Program. The subcommittee adopted the annual report and the report is attached. Senator Jimmy Hickey made a motion to direct BLR staff to draft a one page report information sheet outlining their procedure for filing and considering lottery bills as set out in the code and the joint rules. The one page report shall indicate that the passage of Issue 1 by the people of Arkansas will impact this process and the information sheet shall be sent to all members of the General Assembly. The motion was carried by voice vote. I move for adoption of this report.

 

Senator Terry Rice I have a motion and a second. All in favor aye. Opposed. Thank you, Senator Caldwell. Peer. Senator Dismang, you are recognized.

 

Senator Jonathan Dismang All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Peer subcommittee met on Tuesday, December 17. The subcommittee received reports, reviewed requests and approved the following: various temporary appropriations, CARES Act Appropriation, American Rescue Plan Appropriation, Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act Appropriation, Restricted Reserve Fund transfers. I move for adoption of the report.

 

Senator Terry Rice I have a second. All in favor aye. Opposed. The report is adopted. Senator Flippo, Review. You are recognized.

 

Senator Scott Flippo Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Review subcommittee met on Tuesday and reviewed the agenda items, including MOFs, alternative delivery construction projects, grants and contracts. With the exception of the appropriation for legislative salaries, no items were held and I move adoption of this report.

 

Senator Terry Rice I have a motion and a second. Fall in favor, aye. Opposed? Senator Flippo, thank you.The report is adopted. Just a minute. I've got Senator Petty. You're recognized.

 

Senator Jim Petty Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just need to state for the record that due to personal involvement on one of the items that I will not be voting on that report.

 

Senator Terry Rice Okay. Thank you. Noted. Next up, we have Personnel. Senator Breanne Davis, you are recognized.

 

Senator Breanne Davis Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Personnel subcommittee of ALC met Wednesday, December 18, in Room A of the Big Mac building. The committee approved one new special compensation incentive plan for Veterans Affairs and reviewed a miscellaneous federal grant for a forensic administrator at the Crime Lab. The committee also reviewed two reports. The first was from the Department of Higher Ed regarding the use of provisional positions by four year institutions. The other was the personnel actions report from the Office of Personnel Management regarding the use of special entry and labor market rates by state agencies, as well as the first set of special compensation incentive awards paid by DHS. I will take any questions and move adoption of the report at the proper time. And I also want to say this was the last meeting that I got to serve with my co-chair, Representative Mark Berry. And I just want to-- I don't know if he's here. I don't know if I see him-- but thank him for all of his efforts and work over the last year and a half.

 

Senator Terry Rice Okay. Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. And all in favor say aye. Thank you. Anybody opposed? Without hearing anybody, the report is adopted. Members, look into your report on interim and special committees. It's in your report for the Joint Public Health, Welfare and Labor. If you've got any questions on that, we'll take them. If not, we're going to need a motion for H3, which is the teacher requirement. That standard requires a motion to be reviewed. I have a motion. I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. And opposed. There is none. That is adopted. Also 4A, Arkansas Development Finance Authority. Any questions on that? If not I'll take a motion. I have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. All in favor aye. Opposed? That is adopted. And my  co chair is back for 4C, I think.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Members, I need a motion on Arkansas Economic Development Commission for Rural Services. Got a motion. Do I have a second? Have a second. All those in favor say aye. All opposed. Ayes have it. Move on to item 7. We hear a report from Secretary Putnam on the monthly report on assisted living facilities.

 

Kristi Putnam Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for having me here today. This is the monthly report as directed by Section 15 of Act 213 of 2022. I'm reporting to ALC the status of our efforts regarding reimbursement rates under the Living Choices Assisted Living waiver. DHS completed the work necessary to implement Act 198 of 2023, which authorized DHS to establish cost reporting for Medicaid funded assisted living facilities. The agency is preparing to begin the next cycle of annual cost reporting in January of 2025. The first cost report, analysis and public comment responses were compiled and posted on March 4, 2024. And these can still be found at the website listed in the letter that we submitted to you on December 6. 

On July 3, DHS received formal approval of the Living Choices Waiver amendment from CMS, approving the new proposed rate of $86.73 to begin on July 1, 2024. DHS presented the proposed rate increase to public health on August 14 and received full ALC approval on August 23 of this year. Assisted living facilities were reimbursed at the new rate retroactive to July 1, 2024. The new rate was implemented effective September 1 for all new claims submissions. All claims submitted between July 1st and August 31st were reprocessed, and an adjustment to those payments was made on October 4, 2024. 

The annual cost reporting for Medicaid funded assisted living facility providers will now be conducted annually in accordance with Act 198, and results of this annual reporting analysis will be shared with ALC. Finally, as requested during the May 31 ALC meeting, we're reporting that there were no facility changes of ownerships or closures for the previous month of November. As part of this report, we will continue to provide an updated list of such closures or changes of ownership each month, in addition to immediate email and text notifications we have been providing to ALC and the Governor's office on an ongoing basis. And this concludes our report.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Senator Rice.

 

Senator Terry Rice Thank you, Secretary Putnam, as always, appreciate your communication. I won't be chair after this month, but I will be concerned always for our senior population, our AO population, and will be bringing that to you if I have concerns. Thank you for your report. Thank you for working with me. Appreciate you.

 

Kristi Putnam Absolutely. And happy to continue to communicate, chair or not, sir.

 

Senator Terry Rice Have a merry Christmas.

 

Kristi Putnam Merry Christmas. Thank you all.

 

Representative Jeff Wardlaw Members, seeing no further business, we stand adjourned. Merry Christmas.