Joint Budget Committee
January 21, 2025
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:01:58] Members, if you can go ahead and take your seats. We are going to get started here right now. With that, the chair sees a quorum. Just go ahead and grab your chairs. I have a couple of introductions today. I'm going to start out-- Members, I know we're all excited, but let's go ahead and take our chairs. Out in the audience, Charlie, let's go and get started. Collins. We're getting started. If you got a conversation that you need to continue to have, let's take it outside. All right. Perfect. All right. We have a couple of introductions to start out with.
First, we've got a group from the University of Arkansas. They're part of the Associated Student Government, the Razorback Action Group. If y'all could stand and be recognized. Hopefully, I think they're going to be around with us the rest of the day, the way I understand it. And really, I also just want to make sure everyone's aware of who the vice chairs are of Budget.
So if y'all can stand up, we've got Representative Johnson, Senator Bryant. And also if you can just face everyone. Yeah. What we're going to have them do on Budget days is go ahead and coordinate. So today they're in their purple. Later on this week, we'll see if they can be in their blues or reds or what it may be. But they look great today. But if you got questions, we're going to color coordinate them and then they'll be easier to find.
So with that, that brings us to our reports. We've got a couple of items here. These are all Review. And with that, I'll turn it over to Kevin for a summary. And then if you have questions, just slide up your mic and we'll get to them. Thank you.
Staff [00:03:37] Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Item B1, this is for review. This is from the Department of Parks Heritage and Tourism Division of State Parks. This is their allocation by park. And Mr. Chairman, they're here if anyone has questions.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:03:51] My understanding, we did have a question. So someone from Parks can go ahead and come forward. And by the way, they've changed up some of the settings over here. So I'm not familiar with what we're doing.
Marty Ryall [00:04:15] Marty Ryall, director of legislative affairs for the Department of Parks, Heritage and Tourism.
Mike Wilson [00:04:21] Mike Wilson, assistant director of Arkansas State Parks, focusing on operations.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:04:26] All right. Thank you, Representative Warren, you're recognized for a question. Maybe not.
Representative Les Warren [00:04:39] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm new to the committee, so I'm learning. I have a question. I grew up in the town of Smackover, and I noticed the Arkansas Museum of Natural Resources has nothing allocated to it. And I noticed there were several others like that. Can you just enlighten me as to why there are several on this report that have nothing in it?
Marty Ryall [00:05:04] Yes, sir. The report reflects general revenue use only, not Amendment 75 or our conservation tax. AMNR is paid out of that.
Representative Les Warren [00:05:14] Okay. Thank you.
Mike Wilson [00:05:18] And you'll see, Representative Warren, that some of these such as the Conway Cemetery is just a-- sorry. Some of those such as Conway Cemetery is just maintenance that another park takes care of that maintenance. There's not a full time staff. There's not a visitor center. It's just a little cemetery. And so maintenance is done by a neighboring park.
Representative Les Warren [00:05:35] Okay. Thank you.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:05:37] All right. Thank you. Representative Springer.
Representative Joy Springer [00:05:39] Good morning. Thank you. I'm over here. Thank you, Representative Eaves, for that question. I had the same question with respect to Poison Springs and Withrow Springs. So I think you've answered the question. So they do have some type of allocation to maintain it, up keep those parks down in, I think that's down close to Ouachita County.
Marty Ryall [00:06:04] Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am, It is managed by White Oak State Park. And they do have a maintenance operation budget there. But the labor force there is White Oak State Park that takes care of it.
Representative Joy Springer [00:06:15] Thank you.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:06:20] Representative Wooten, you're recognized.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:06:22] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I notice in looking at expenditures for 2024, comparing that to the budget, there's a lot of them that are coming in expenses under the budget. Do you all go back and evaluate the expenditures and anticipate expenses? I mean, some of them are far in excess of what-- one's 40,000-- Lake Ouachita is almost a 100,000 off from expenses versus budget.
Marty Ryall [00:07:05] Yes, sir. Those are strictly due to vacant positions. For example, we're budgeted for 670 positions in Arkansas State Parks, and we're currently at a pretty high number right now at 86% fulfillment on our positions right now. But all of that is due to vacant positions over the past year with troubles in retention and attraction in positions.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:07:31] How many of those positions have been vacant for over two years?
Marty Ryall [00:07:37] I'd have to get back with you on that number. But there are some, sir. I could get back with you on that to give you an exact number.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:07:44] What's causing you being unable to fill those positions?
Marty Ryall [00:07:47] It's basically the current market labor, what it's running at. So we're having issues on attraction on some of our positions, especially in remote geographical areas. When you start factoring in gas and travel and things like that, it's really hard to get some of these positions filled, whether it be a maintenance position, a park ranger and even some of our park superintendents. For example, down at Lake Chicot State Park, it took us a great while to attract a new park superintendent down there. It's been going on for about nine months. So that's nine months without paying that salary.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:08:26] All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:08:30] All right. Thank you. Seeing no other questions on B1, it stands reviewed. B2.
Staff [00:08:36] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Item B2, this is the Department of Finance and Administration Office of Revenue Legal Counsel. This is to give tax litigation resolved during the prior calendar year.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:08:50] All right. Thank you. Members, do we have any questions on B2? All right. Seeing no questions, it's reviewed. B3. Senator Rice.
Senator Terry Rice [00:09:06] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've got a constituent question for somebody from the Arkansas State Police on this executive protection.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:09:14] Okay. Let's let him get the summary real quick. I'm going to leave you hot, but I'm going to let you go ahead.
Staff [00:09:26] You want me to go ahead and do B3, Mr. Chairman? Yes, sir. This is a report from the Department of Public Safety. This is where they will report expenses incurred by the executive protection detail for services provided to the governor. That's item B3.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:09:40] All right. Thank you. Senator Rice. If we have anybody to come forward from State Police and then, Senator Rice, you're recognized for your question. You can just go ahead and recognize yourself.
Mike Hagar [00:10:00] Good morning. I'm Mike Hagar, secretary of the Department of Public Safety and Director of State Police.
Karen Perry [00:10:05] Karen Perry, Department of Public Safety CFO.
Senator Terry Rice [00:10:10] Thank you and good morning. Had a constituent question me and I think I answered part of the question, but I didn't know the other part, so you're the man that can answer that. On the international trips, the question was about payment. I explained what I called the Economic Development Foundation pays for some, state may pay some. They asked about the protection detail.
And I said, one thing, there's protections that, for security, you may not name the number of people that can go, but I said I'll find out an average cost and if it is state taxpayer money. So can you answer, is it state taxpayer money on international security protection trips? And if so, since we've got some history recently and I don't know if it was a particular administration, but that's where the question came from. Is there an average cost to what that's been on previous trips?
Mike Hagar [00:11:13] Yes, sir. I would be afraid to say what the average cost would be. That would probably be something we'd have to go back and figure some numbers on. Obviously, it would--
Senator Terry Rice [00:11:22] Would you be afraid to or you just don't know?
Mike Hagar [00:11:24] I don't know.
Senator Terry Rice [00:11:24] Okay. Yeah, There's a difference. Is that something the citizenry can find out?
Mike Hagar [00:11:33] Yes, sir. I think we could try to get an average cost. It does differ greatly depending on the country that they are traveling to. The Economic Development Commission, they do pick up part of the tab sometimes for like ground transportation, translators, things like that. It really depends on where we're going and what the needs for the security detail are. If they travel to a country that is considered a higher risk, we have to sometimes contract with local security people.
And if it falls more into a protection aspect for ground transportation and things like that, then that would fall under State Police Budget. If it's more of just for normal transportation, if that's a fair way to say it, then sometimes the Economic Development Commission will pick that up. That's changed over different administrations.
You know, I've, of course, worked in my time the detail with three different governor's offices, not counting this one. And that's always differed a little bit on what the foundation picks up and what State Police picks up. But the biggest difference, again, is if they're going to a place where is deemed the safe travel destination versus somewhere that is, we're under current warnings from the State Department or things like that. We do have to enhance security on those. And typically that cost would fall under State Police.
Senator Terry Rice [00:13:02] Okay. But I can answer one question as, yes, taxpayer dollars pay for the protection detail?
Mike Hagar [00:13:08] Yes, sir, that is correct.
Senator Terry Rice [00:13:09] Okay. Let me just go with that. If they want some kind of average for past ones, I'll get with you offline.
Mike Hagar [00:13:15] Yes, sir.
Senator Terry Rice [00:13:16] Thank you.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:13:18] All right. Thank you. Representative Wooten, you're recognized for a question.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:13:20] Thank you, Colonel. Glad to see you here today. November expenses were 346,000 and your total expenses for six months was 816,000. Almost half of that went in the month of November. What happened then to create that?
Karen Perry [00:13:49] Representative Wooten, I think there was an extra pay period in November. November, I think, had three pay periods. So it's salary. That's the salary overtime and fringe. That's the difference. That would be the reason why.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:14:03] Okay. Follow up, if I may. Colonel, I had a constituent contact me yesterday. It appears that, from what I understand, and I've just heard one side, that there were 40 troopers and cars that went to Washington, D.C., for the inauguration. Can you share, is that correct?
Mike Hagar [00:14:27] Yes, sir, that is correct. We're actually in the process of going back to look to see exactly when that correspondence began. But right at a year ago, there was a call that went out from Washington, D.C., police and our federal partners that were requesting basically assistance from state and local agencies to provide support for the inaugural mission. We agreed to do that, I believe, in February of last year, long before we knew even who the candidates would be, much less who would win the election.
So there's been some inference that that was a politically motivated thing or that that was to represent the governor. That's actually not the case at all. We agreed to send those 40 troopers, which are reimbursed by the federal government. I think there was 26 State Police agencies that were requested or that agreed to send local agencies, and those were from red and blue states. There was also NYPD, Chicago PD.
So in addition to State Police personnel that we're seeing, there were also multiple large law enforcement agencies, both police and sheriff's departments, that agreed to send troopers for that mission or agreed to send law enforcement for that mission. But that is something that we agreed to almost a year ago, long before we knew that had nothing to do with the governor's protection. It was two completely different details that were sent.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:15:58] So how many did you send?
Mike Hagar [00:16:01] We sent 40 for that.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:16:03] And all 40 were used by the request?
Mike Hagar [00:16:08] Yes, sir. They were deputized on Sunday, I believe, by the United States Marshal's office, along with all the other. There was about right at 4,000 state, city and county officers that were sent up there in support of that mission. And we did send 40 from the state.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:16:30] How many went with the governor?
Mike Hagar [00:16:35] I don't know the exact number, but if that's okay, that's something that I would rather talk about offline.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:16:43] Well, I understand that. But of the 40, they were deputized in Washington proper, just as we were when we went into Memphis several years ago?
Mike Hagar [00:16:56] Yes, sir. That was a request similar to when we've sent troopers in the past to support hurricane relief and things like that. It was a similar request that is reimbursed by the federal government.
Representative Jim Wooten [00:17:08] Thank you, sir, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:17:10] Thank you. If you could, let them know we're proud of their commitment to serve and appreciate the fact that they were willing to go. It means a lot. And I'm sorry that you had the news stories that try to portray that in some other light and sorry for what happened with those law enforcement members. Again, I appreciate them being willing to engage and be a part of the process there in DC.
Mike Hagar [00:17:29] Yes, sir. We appreciate the question and the opportunity to clarify that, because that was not what it was implied to be at all.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:17:37] Absolutely. Unfortunate that that happened. All right. Do we have any other questions? Senator Stubblefield?
Senator Gary Stubblefield [00:17:44] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Col. Hagar, can you tell me how many states around us sent troopers of that magnitude?
Mike Hagar [00:17:57] I think several--
Senator Gary Stubblefield [00:18:01] Kansas, Oklahoma, Missouri.
Mike Hagar [00:18:02] I know I spoke with the captain that led that detail this morning. And he said that he believes there are 26 State Police agencies that were represented. I know I spoke with the colonel of Louisiana State Police yesterday. They sent a large number. Oklahoma, Missouri, Alabama, New York, Delaware, Illinois, California. There were a large number sent from all those agencies. Basically the request was made and just asked us to send what we could. We were also requested to send troopers to the conventions. We declined to do that, but we did agree to send them to the inauguration. And we told the troop commanders, asked what they could afford to give up, and we ultimately committed to 40.
Senator Gary Stubblefield [00:18:51] Okay, the Guard troops, I've heard different numbers. I think, wasn't there 8,000 National Guardsmen there as well?
Mike Hagar [00:19:03] Honestly, I have no idea on that, Senator.
Senator Gary Stubblefield [00:19:05] Yeah, that was reported on all day that there was 8,000 guardsmen along with the troopers there to take care of this event. Most of it was, I mean, it was outside. Can you tell us anything about, is it Dalvo the governor is going to this morning, today?
Mike Hagar [00:19:31] I'm sorry. Can you repeat?
Senator Gary Stubblefield [00:19:33] Dalvo, Switzerland?
Mike Hagar [00:19:36] I don't--
Senator Gary Stubblefield [00:19:37] You don't know anything about that trip?
Mike Hagar [00:19:40] I know they're going, but I don't know any specifics about it.
Senator Gary Stubblefield [00:19:43] Okay. All right. All right. Thank you, Colonel Hagar.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:19:49] All right. Thank you. Senator Dees.
Senator Tyler Dees [00:19:52] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I really want to echo the chair's comments and let you know I'm fully appreciative of our team that was able to be there. I was there this last week and I saw multiple troopers from multiple different states and I'm thankful that teams across the country sent men and women to go serve and protect us across the country. So thank you for letting Arkansas be represented with that. But just a quick question. When I see this report and I think about your team, it is fair to say that your budgets are going to fluctuate based on threats of risk and based on different meetings and environments, and that wouldn't be outside the norm of any other month to month plan. Is that fair to say?
Mike Hagar [00:20:36] Yes, sir, absolutely.
Senator Tyler Dees [00:20:37] And so if anything ever fluctuated higher to a level that was outside of our planned procedures and budgets, we would come here and review and approve?
Mike Hagar [00:20:46] Yes, sir. Of course.
Senator Tyler Dees [00:20:47] Thank you for your support.
Mike Hagar [00:20:48] Thank you.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:20:49] Thank you. Senator Hickey.
Senator Jimmy Hickey [00:20:56] All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. You touched on it just a second. Just if you could expand on it, because I think it's super important. Did you say that is all going to be fully reimbursed for the whole 40 officers by the federal government? Was that what I understood you to say?
Mike Hagar [00:21:11] Yes, sir. The overwhelming share will be. I spoke with the captain this morning and we're going to have a little bit of per diem cost that we decided that it would be more efficient for them to get their gear there to drive up instead of fly. So you can imagine with the equipment that they took, that becomes a whole different issue. There will be a little bit of per diem, I think, for one day.
And they reported yesterday on their assignment at 4:00 in the morning. They got back to their hotel about midnight last night. We've not calculated the overtime on that. But I can say the overwhelming share is going to be reimbursed by the federal government. I can't tell you for certain that we're not going to have some experience that will be incurred with their operations budget. But we had that budget in place. We're certainly not going to request any additional funds.
Senator Jimmy Hickey [00:22:08] I think that's understandable. Like I say, I just thought that was important that we hear that the majority of those funds are going to be covered because I'm sure they have the line item for that as far as the federal government. Thank you, sir.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:22:22] All right. Thank you. Do we have any other questions on B3? Seeing none, that item is reviewed. B4.
Staff [00:22:29] Mr. Chairman, this is another report. This is from Department of Finance and Administration. B4 shows the value of each exemption, discount credit and deduction for individuals from state sales and income tax.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:22:43] All right. Thank you. Members, I'd encourage you to take a look through that report just to get familiar with some of the carve outs that we have in our sales tax law. Also, we're going to ask that this is sent to the members of the Revenue and Tax committees in both the House and Senate so that they have that in case they're not on Joint Budget. With that, do we have any questions? All right. Seeing none, B4 is reviewed. B5.
Staff [00:23:08] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. B5. This is from the Arkansas Insurance Department. This is a monthly update required by ALC Executive Committee for an emergency rule that was approved for fair and reasonable pharmacy reimbursements. This reports its activities on those reimbursements, as well as enforcement complaints activities related to the PBM regulation.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:23:31] All right. Thank you. Members, do we have any questions on B5? I've got one. And if you can, just whoever needs to can identify themselves. But it's just on staffing. As we gear up, you're going to have several hundred applications come in before February 17. How are we doing on staffing? Is it something that you're going to be able to handle? And what do we expect the turnaround to be as far as time of review?
Alan McClain [00:24:15] Sure. Alan McClain, Insurance Commissioners. This is Jimmy Harris, Deputy Commissioner. We think the technology is there that we can receive large amounts of data at this time and by the deadline. And we're expected to turn it around in a short amount of time. We're receiving only now, as you know, the deadline is February. So we expect a flurry of reports from the health plans probably closer to the deadline than now. So we have the data system in place to receive that and we'll turn that around in a matter of weeks.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:24:54] And so as far as staffing, after we get the information, then it's going to have to be reviewed. Are we saying a computer system or program is going to do the review or do we have enough staff to handle several hundred new reports that was otherwise not being reviewed by the department?
Alan McClain [00:25:11] Absolutely. The lion's share of the data is received electronically. We have a contract with an actuarial firm who is doing all the number crunching. So it's not requiring any additional staff for us because we're going to rely on the actuaries.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:25:27] Okay. And so that's a new contract that we have with an actuary to review it?
Alan McClain [00:25:31] It's an existing contract. We have a standing contract with the actuary that we utilize because of all the other data that we have to crunch in our department that's not PBM. We have to have a standing contract with actuarial services because that's not a position we typically keep staffed.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:25:53] So it's the same cost? They were on retainer of some kind and so they're going to do the several hundred reports for the same cost that they were going to do if they didn't have the several hundred reports?
Alan McClain [00:26:01] There'll be some additional cost with it. I mean, it's within the existing contract that's been approved here. But we will utilize more of that contract than we might typically do in a year, but it's already sufficient enough.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:26:16] Okay. All right. That will work. And I appreciate you guys picking back up that 2020 report with the PBMs. I think that probably will be as helpful as anything that we did as with Rule 128. So with that, do we have any other questions? All right. Seeing none, B5 is reviewed. Members, we have a few bills that we can go ahead and let out. They don't have any personnel changes or GR. So the first one will be on page nine, the only one in the Senate packet. Senate Bill 53. Kevin, You're recognized.
Staff [00:26:49] Yes, sir. In the Senate packet, that's the upper right hand S, in the upper right hand corner. There's an S on that. These are Senate bills that are referred to Joint Budget Committee. On page 9, Senate Bill 53, Auditor of State acts as the disbursing agent for continuing education of local officials. Mr. Chairman.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:27:06] All right. Thank you. Members, do we have any questions on Senate Bill 53? All right. Seeing none, what's the will of the committee? We've got a motion do pass. We've got a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion carries. I believe the next one is in the House packet. Page 5. House Bill 1102.
Staff [00:27:28] Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page 5, House Bill 1102. This is the Treasurer acts as the disbursing agent for county aid and municipal aid.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:27:38] All right. Thank you. Members, do we have any questions on House Bill 1102? All right, Seeing none, we need a motion. I've got a motion do pass. We've got a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Others opposed? Motion carries. Next set will be on page 6.
Staff [00:27:56] Yes, sir. House Bill 1108 Treasurer of State acts as disbursing agent for the refund of local taxes.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:28:03] Members, do we have any questions on House Bill 1108? Seeing no questions, we've got a motion do pass. We've got a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion carries. House Bill 1109.
Staff [00:28:17] Amendment 79 Property Tax Appropriation. 74. Sorry.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:28:22] All right. Thank you. Members, any questions on House Bill 1109? Seeing none, we've got a motion do pass. We've got a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion carries. House Bill 1110.
Staff [00:28:35] Animal Rescue Shelters Appropriation.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:28:38] All right. Thank you. Members, any questions on House Bill 1110? Seeing none, we've got a motion do pass. We've got a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion carries. House Bill 1111.
Staff [00:28:52] Assistance to local law enforcement and emergency medical appropriation.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:28:57] Thank you. Any questions on House Bill 1111? Seeing none, we've got a motion do pass. We've got a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion carries. Next, we will be on page 7. House Bill 1113.
Staff [00:29:13] That is for the payment of general obligation bonds. That's the last one, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Jonathan Dismang [00:29:17] All right. Thank you. Members, we have any questions on House Bill 1113? All right. Seeing none, we've got a motion do pass. We've got a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion carries.
Staff [00:29:36] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Governor's Letter in your packet. This is Governor's Letter Number 1. This is a request for governor session legislative liaison staff appropriation bill. If the committee chooses to adopt this Governor's Letter, the committee will authorize us to draft their appropriation bill, which will then be referred to this committee for its consideration.
Staff [00:29:57] Thank you. Members, do we have any questions on the Governor's Letter? All right. Seeing none, I need a motion to adopt. We have a motion to adopt. We have a second. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion carried. All right. I believe that wraps up our business today. Thank you guys for your time. Not seeing any other business, next Tuesday we will meet 9:00, same room. Thank you. All right. We're adjourned.
