House Education Committee
February 4, 2025
Representative Keith Brooks Chair sees a quorum. House Education will come to order. And we will recognize former chair and Representative Cozart who's sitting with me today in the absence of vice chair McKenzie. We will recognize Representative Cozart to start us in prayer. Members, first, just a small point of personal privilege. I'm going to recognize Representative McGruder to welcome some guests.
Representative Jessie McGruder Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to recognize the two students who are actually in education. They're from Philander Smith College, where my daughter actually started school. They are Taylor Metcalf and Trinity Wright. We thank you all for attending today.
Representative Keith Brooks Welcome. Thank you guys for being here. Thank you for your passion for education. We're appreciative that you joined us. If you are here to speak for or against a bill, there is a sign up sheet out in the lobby. I'm not sure that we've picked it up as of yet. I want to clarify. We have picked it up, so thank you so much for that.
So this morning we have several bills on the agenda. There are a couple of bills that have garnered a little bit of attention. So I just want to establish a little bit of ground rules when it comes to testimony and the audience speaking for or against the bill. The expectation of this committee is that we will be respectful in everything that we do, that will be respectful to members who have brought legislation, that we will be respectful and comments will stick to the facts on the facts of a bill, the merits of that piece of legislation which will help us move along and stay between between the guardrails of what we're doing.
So first this morning, I'm going to recognize Representative Hollowell to present SB 46. Representative Hollowell, introduce yourself and present your bill.
Representative Steve Hollowell Representative Steve Hollowell, District 37. And I have a guest with me also, Dr. Klein from Community College.
Representative Keith Brooks If you please introduce yourself.
Kathy Klein Kathy Klein, Chancellor, University of Arkansas East Arkansas Community College.
Representative Steve Hollowell Okay. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, committee. This is a real simple bill. And this is an act concerning East Arkansas Community College to reflect a merger between the University of Arkansas and East Arkansas Community College by changing the name of East Arkansas Community College to the University of Arkansas East Arkansas Community College. And that pretty much sums up the bill. And all it does is change the name of the college since the merger. So I'm closed and I appreciate a good vote.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Hollowell has presented his bill. Are there questions on the bill from committee? Seeing no questions, is there anyone signed up to speak for or against the bill? Seeing no questions, Representative Hollowell has closed for his bill. We have a motion on the table from Representative Meeks do pass. What is the will of committee? All in favor, say aye. All opposed? Congratulations, Representative Hollowell, your bill has passed.
Representative Steve Hollowell Thank you. Thank you very much.
Representative Keith Brooks All right, Moving on. Sorry, Representative Vaught, I should have clarified this. You're not running either one of your bills this morning. I'm just making sure. Representative Barker, you're recognized to present HB 1199. I'm just trying to create a little bit of mood lighting for you. So it's all good.
Representative Sonia Eubanks Barker Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sonia Barker, State Representative, District 96. Committee, House Bill 1199 is just what it looks like. It's a bill that strikes language, doesn't add anything back. Because the language that's there, even though it's been there a while, is unnecessary, burdensome and problematic.
If you look at this section of code, it's talking about prohibited transfers for schools that are under a deseg order. This bill does not change or touch or alter or have really any effect on that deseg order. Obviously, it can't.
But it's unnecessary to remind a school that they're under a deseg order. It's unnecessary to remind our school to follow their deseg order. Obviously, it's important. That's why it's court ordered. That's why it's there. But it's also a bit of an overreach because in the wording it says boards of directors of local school districts are prohibited from granting legal transfers when either the resident district or the receiving district is under a deseg-related court order. Well, that's broad because these deseg orders, we kind of by default assume that they all deal with student population.
But deseg orders can be issued that have nothing to do with student population. They can be issued for facilities, for faculty, for transportation. So first of all, it's really not great wording even as it exists. But it's unnecessary. But the real problematic part is as it goes forward, where it requires all members of both boards receiving, releasing to, after a board has voted to approve a transfer, got to get all the signatures on an affidavit from both boards. Okay.
So basically, we've asked them to sign that they're doing things that they're supposed to already be doing. But the problem is, I guess at minimum, it gives even just one board member, whether they voted for or against, gives one board member the power to stall at minimum that transfer if they refuse to give their signature completely. And they've just basically gotten a veto power in that committee.
If we had that, if that were in our language, and this committee 2o to 0 or 19 to 1 voted a bill out. But if we had that extra step where now somebody has to come and get all of our signatures saying that's exactly what we were doing, we knew what we were doing. And someone changes their mind and decides not to sign,that bill can't go anywhere. Well, that's what's happening to our board transfers. Not in all cases. Obviously, only under these that apply and only with bad actors.
But it's not even necessary to be there to give that a loophole to be able to happen. It's problematic. It's unnecessary. The department is already looking at this language and they are okay with the bill. I've had no one reach out to me. Not saying there isn't opposition, but no one has reached out to me in opposition. I have had former board members, had one person, not from my district, been a board member for 30 years and said, I can't believe it took so long for us to get here.
This language was put in in the 80s. And this bill actually came from a school administrator, again, not in my district. I'll be happy to try and answer any questions. Or the department and others are here that we could probably speak to more intricacies of board to board transfers. This does not change the board's ability to vote. Again, it doesn't change the deseg order. Actually, it upholds the integrity of the board and their decision by not allowing something to happen after their vote. I'll take any questions.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, Representative Barker. Other questions from the committee? Seeing no questions, has anyone signed up to speak for or against the bill? We have no one signed up. We have a motion on the table do pass. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Congratulations, Representative Barker, your bill is passed.
Representative Sonia Eubanks Barker Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, committee.
Representative Keith Brooks Trying to keep it easy. Thank you, Representative Barker. We are going to move now to HB 1236. Representative Joey Carr, you're recognized. If you would introduce yourself, please.
Representative Joey Carr Good morning. Joey Carr, District 34. House Bill 1236, what this does, it creates a statewide process in dealing with personnel and contracts for public school employees by setting the date for all to follow. Right now, they're all kind of out on their own. The date that is set in the collaboration with the superintendents, it's after the end of year testing and it's before PD.
So it's kind of the best time in the school calendar for teachers that look to change school districts, whether it may be shortening their commute or if you're like an aspiring administrator and there's openings at other schools when the administrator that you're working under, they're going to be there for several more years. And it just creates an opportunity for them to change districts, even though those contracts have already been issued. And it kind of goes back to the way personnel had operated prior to that.
I started working with Dr. Hernandez and the AAEA, and so I started with those superintendents to kind of work my way back the other direction through the collaboration. They had input on the legal language. And then as recent as last Thursday, we tweaked the date. They asked me if I could back it up one more week earlier. And so I said, no problem. So that's when I did a member's own amendment, and then I sent the final product back to them. It was the legislative committee in the AAEA that I had talked the most with. And they were in agreement. I sent it to the governor's office. They said they could get behind it. And also Secretary Oliva as well. So, anybody have any questions? I'd be happy to answer.
Representative Keith Brooks Questions from the committee?
Representative Joey Carr Sorry. I ran over here from Transportation Committee.
Representative Keith Brooks Well done.
Representative Joey Carr So I'm still a little winded.
Representative Keith Brooks You're in better shape than most of us. Seeing no questions, is there anyone signed up? Sorry, Representative Duke. There we go. You're recognized for a question.
Representative Hope Duke Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a quick question. So it's from the end of the testing window?
Representative Joey Carr The actual date is May 15th. If the 15th falls on a weekend, it goes to the previous Friday. I had originally put it on the Friday prior to Memorial Day. And the reason that's the best time is testing is over with and make up tests and all that stuff right up to May the 1st. I didn't want to do it earlier in May because that would be when interviews would be occurring.
And I didn't want those building administrators that last part of April to have to be finding assessment proctors. They have to be certified teacher to administer those tests. So I didn't want to put a hardship on them. So that's why I kind of went to the latter part. Some of the superintendents that I spoke with just this last week was superintendent from Bryant, Searcy, Jonesboro, Westside, White County Central and Pine Bluff. And when I went back that week earlier, they were immediately pleased. And so that's kind of why we ended up with that date. So the actual date is May 15th.
Representative Hope Duke So up until that point, they can rescind it without the board or anybody taking any action on it?
Representative Joey Carr Come May 15th or that Friday prior, that contract goes into effect. And it's a little bit earlier in the year than what had been prior, because typically I think the policy stated that when contracts were handed out, the employee had 30 days and then it went into effect.
So when I talked to superintendents, I was kind of like doing a little window like that. And they said, how about if we just do a definite deadline date? That way we can do our contracts when we want to with the understanding that they go into effect May 15th. I said that's fine. Because I wanted to work in a way because the procedure itself is going to benefit the public school employee.
But I wanted to do it in a way where it would be superintendent friendly, I guess you could say. That way it's not going to tie their hands. And they were happy about the idea more than what I realized they would be, because they said this puts us all on the same page and we're not competing against each other on earlier dates. So they were leased with that.
Representative Keith Brooks Are there additional questions from the committee? Yes, sir. Representative McGruder, you're recognized.
Representative Jessie McGruder I love the spirit of the bill. My question is, when will contracts actually be going out to teachers? Because we have a date that they are meant to roll over. But when will contracts actually go out?
Representative Joey Carr And that was the part that the superintendents said, they said, we love it, that we have the freedom to do it whenever. So they could do it. You know, typically superintendents are approved in January. Administrators are approved in February. And then teachers are usually approved by the board in March or April at the latest. So they can start doing contracts whenever. That's what they liked about this is they had the freedom to do them whenever with the understanding that May 15th is when it goes into effect and that's the deadline. So there's no date that contracts have to go out. That way, it's their choice of doing that whenever.
Representative Jessie McGruder Follow up. On page two, we have a March date on here. And they're saying when they need to start preparing contracts or is that saying when contracts need to.
Representative Joey Carr Are you talking about in the emergency clause?
Representative Jessie McGruder Section two. Yeah.
Representative Joey Carr When I put that on there for the emergency clause for me to justify why to do the emergency clause, I said, well, we needed to do that now, have it in effect because schools start as early as of getting those ready. So the reason that statement is in there is to justify the reason to make it go into effect immediately. That way, it's going to go into effect once it's approved in all the steps here.
Representative Keith Brooks Any additional questions by members? Seeing no additional questions, is anyone signed up to speak for or against? Seeing none, Representative Carr, you ready to close for your bill?
Representative Joey Carr Yes, sir. I'm closed. And thank you for your time and I appreciate a good vote. This will benefit superintendents in dealing with personnel, but it also provides that opportunity for the public school employees. So everything I've seen, it's a win win situation. Thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Carr is closed for his bill. What's the will of committee? Have a motion do pass. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing no discussion, all in favor, say aye. All opposed. Congratulations, Representative Carr, your bill has passed.
Representative Joey Carr Thank you, committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Keith Brooks Members, we will now move to down the calendar just a little bit to Representative Scott Richardson, HB 1060. Representative Richardson, You're recognized. My apologies, members. We do have an amendment that we have to expunge with a new amendment that has been engrossed in the bill. So I do make a motion to expunge Representative Richardson's prior amendment. Is there any discussion on the motion? All in favor, say aye. Opposed. The amendment has been expunged. Represent Richardson, now you're recognized to present HB 1060.
Representative Scott Richardson Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, committee. So you'll recognize this bill. It is one that I presented a couple of weeks ago. Based on a number of recommendations from the committee, made some adjustments, engrossed that amendment in the bill. So just to run through these, the takeaways from that previous discussion was that you had concerns, the committee had concerns about the timeframe being adequate for the department to address the changes.
I did sit with the department, the Secretary and staff, and they feel very confident that they're going to be able to accomplish this in the time frame that's provided in the bill. Next was to address the concerns over improper use of the term curriculum versus standards. You guys remember there was back and forth on that. That's been addressed. You can see that on page two, line one. Next, to address concerns over the general negative approach to other types of government in favor of a more comparison approach between constitutional republic and the failures of these other government types, we did address that throughout the bill.
You'll see that on page two through the remainder of the bill, item B and following. And then last was to address that the bill is not intended to restrict the curriculum, can include other types of examples beyond the ones that are listed in the bill and to address that last 25 years. So you'll see that we took that language out and we use the language 'without limitation' to provide that as examples that those are not restrictive in any way form. So that's the changes that the committee requested and we got those all engrossed in the amendment. So I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. I didn't do that. I just want to be clear.
Representative Keith Brooks It's becoming a theme this morning.
Representative Scott Richardson So I'm happy to address any questions.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, Representative Richardson. Are there questions for the Representative on the bill? Representative Brown, you're recognized.
Representative Karilyn Brown Well, this is just a picky thing. You've got an edit issue on line 2 on page two. You say the updated standards under subsection A of this section shall include address. So does it include or does it address? I think somebody failed to decide which word was best.
Representative Scott Richardson I'm sorry. Could you tell me where that's at?
Representative Karilyn Brown It begins on line one two. But the actual two words, it says, 'include address.' What are we going to include and are we going to address it?
Representative Keith Brooks She's referring to just grammar.
Representative Karilyn Brown It's just a grammar thing. Yeah. It's not a substantive issue. It's just somebody forgot to pick which word they wanted to use.
Representative Scott Richardson I will confess my grammar and editing skills sometimes leave a lot to be desired. My apologies. I'm not sure from a substance perspective that that really negates.
Representative Karilyn Brown It's not substantive. I just thought maybe you should choose a word and stick with it.
Representative Scott Richardson I would completely agree with that statement. Thank you.
Representative Karilyn Brown You're welcome.
Representative Keith Brooks I'll just go ahead and follow up on that and just ask if you'd be willing to correct that on the Senate end as it moved through.
Representative Scott Richardson Absolutely.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Nazarenko, you are recognized.
Representative Jason Nazarenko Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And this is just reiterating, I appreciate your your bill and appreciate what it's trying to do. I just did want to bring it up again. Still see in the fiscal impact, it says district would incur the cost of purchase and adoption of the curricula. So again, just from my district here and from my superintendents, they just are very concerned about anything that comes up that's mandated that's not included in any kind of funding that they'd be responsible for coming up with that funding. So I just wanted to voice that.
Representative Scott Richardson And I appreciate that question. The end result is that we're not adding any additional curriculum to the requirements. We're simply stipulating that they do address in the standards the comparison of thes. The curriculum is already there and available for them. It's readily available in text already. It's just a matter of leveraging that in a format that does compare and contrast the resiliency of the Constitutional Republic versus these other types of governments that continue to fail over and over.
Representative Jason Nazarenko Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair.
Representative Keith Brooks Is that Representative Garner with a light on down there? Representative Garner, You're recognized.
Representative Denise Garner I just have a quick issue question. I just, I still have an issue with communism and authoritarianism being defined as the same. They are not the same. So communism is economic. It's not a system of government. And in this bill, you're using them as the same thing. So are we just adding authoritarian? Authoritarianism is in the standards already. So we are just specifically adding a political and economic ideology under autocracy. But it's not a system of government. But it looks like in the bill that we're calling them the same thing. Wouldn't you agree?
Representative Scott Richardson I would actually not agree with that. So the idea is not just to approach the autocratic governments as the style, but also their economic impacts. And we do address that through the economic statements within the bill itself. We have several examples of the economic downfall of communism across the board. So we want to make sure that we've included economic format in the conversation because it is relevant to the conversation of the style of government.
Representative Denise Garner So I guess my question is, are we going to add all economic and political ideologies into every system of government that we talk about? And if so, how long is that going to take to work on that curriculum?
Representative Scott Richardson We're not adding every single one. This bill is limited to just the communism approach.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Gonzales Worthen, you're recognized.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen Yes. Representative Richardson, I was wondering about, I'm hearing from constituents about social studies teachers related to the basically creating a law. We brought attention, which is great. You've brought attention to this, to this part of social studies standards. And Secretary Oliva did say that the best way of addressing this would be to bring together all of the social studies teachers, bring together a group of social studies teachers that teach this on a daily basis, understand it.
But it would take a while, in a year or so to be able to do this. And currently you have the prior to the 25, 26 school year, for all of that to be completed, it's going to take longer. And I'm just a little concerned about having a law that really maybe should go to the Arkansas Department of Education, and this is what they do. But at the same time, your bill does address a gap that you would like to see filled. So I guess my question is the 25, 26 school years, I don't think all of this could be implemented.
And also, and so I just wanted to ask you about that. And then also the standards, keeping those standards aligned with how will we ensure that those standards are aligned? And can we actually continue to place legislation to promote that in the standards? In other words, to keep those two aligned working together? And I think that's what you're trying to do is to work together. But I have a concern with the time frame and then also how we would be able to do this efficiently, effectively and working together.
Representative Scott Richardson Certainly. And I appreciate that question. It was a concern that was originally addressed by this committee. And when I sat down with the secretary and staff, they assured me that completing that during that time frame wouldn't be a problem. And I remember distinctly the secretary here at the table, actually in the seat I'm in now, addressing those concerns and stating that it is a normal process when they address standards to bring these people together and to social studies teachers, those stakeholders, bring those together, those experts to have that conversation, to update that standard, and that he felt like that that wouldn't take much time, maybe a month or two to be able to accomplish that.
As I recall, he was very specific about that and addressing that concern. So from that, I can feel fairly confident that the requirements, the minor requirements that this bill has can easily be implemented in the time frame that we've addressed and that was agreed upon by the department that they could accomplish this in that short order time. So I don't think that's a concern for them. They definitely didn't relay that to me. And so I feel confident that we have plenty of time to get this taken care of.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Garner, you're recognized. Sorry. Representative Vaught, you're recognized.
Representative DeAnn Vaught Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is Secretary Oliva here where he can answer that question? Because I also remember him talking about not being able to.
Representative Keith Brooks I don't believe the secretary is here, but there are representatives from the department. Is there someone who would like to answer that question?
Representative DeAnn Vaught Yeah. Thank you, sir.
Representative Keith Brooks If you would please introduce yourself for the record and then proceed to answer the question.
Courtney Salas Ford Good morning. Courtney Salas Ford, Chief of Staff for the Department of Education. We will work within whatever timeline you all set forth for us. Obviously, the longer that we have to bring stakeholders together to meet and have input and review that, it just allows for a more thorough process. But we can make whatever timeline work.
Representative DeAnn Vaught Follow up. I don't really necessarily have a problem with the bill. I do have an issue with the timeline because I know how things around here work and they tend to not be very fast. And it is a process in which if we're going to implement it, I think it needs to be done correctly. But my question is, what is the difference in this and what we do now? Like what is what to do now with this category of subjects that changes in this piece of legislation? What does this change?
Courtney Salas Ford I understand your question. I mean, what does this change? I mean, many of these items are already addressed in some of the standards. I think this would have committees and groups go through to make sure that all of them are included and covered and that there's anything specific that needs to be added. So it would almost be a review of the standards to make any corrections and revisions to comply with the bill language. So I don't think it's anything different per se. We would still go through the standard setting review process. I think it's just, again, bringing it to attention and making sure that we are including all of the specified items.
Representative DeAnn Vaught And I agree with bringing attention to it. I'm good with that. I do worry about, though, the process and how long it'll take. There's still rules that we don't have for LEARNS. And I know how the process is. It's a long process to get things like you want it to be. So my issue and the reason I'll be voting no is because I think the timeline is wrong for doing it and doing it correctly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, Representative. Additional questions from the committee? Representative Gonzales Worthen, you're recognized.
Representative Denise Garner Yes. You had mentioned that these are already addressed in the standards, but maybe they just need to be make sure that where they're addressed specifically to at the request related to what this bill is saying. Is that correct?
Courtney Salas Ford Some of them, yes. Some of them may not all be as specified as to the particular item or event. And so it's just going to be a very thorough review process for us to compare what is in the standards and does it address these and do we need to be more specific? So I can't say that for sure all of them are addressed, but that would be part of the review process.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen And then additionally, one of the concerns from a social studies teacher was ensuring that some of this is aimed at that it's developmentally appropriate. With some of what is in the bill, it may not be appropriate for the seventh graders, for example, or eighth graders as we move up along the line.
Courtney Salas Ford Right. And that's all part of the standard review setting process when they are looking at the content that we want to teach. And then how do we make that appropriate for a particular grade level. So as you said, teaching a particular concept to a 12th grade class as opposed to a seventh grade class, you're going to highlight and focus on different aspects. And so that is again, all part of that process and making sure that it is age and content appropriate.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen Okay. And then my final question. So when you're reviewing the standards, if you were to do a really thorough, thorough alignment and seeing if everything that is contained in this bill is part of the standards. And you're bringing the social studies teachers to the table, all levels to ensure they're in there, ideally what would you say to really ensure that all of these aspects are in the standards at the particular grade level. To be able to really do that and do it well, what would the timeline, what's the typical timeline?
Courtney Salas Ford Typically for a very thorough, expansive review process can take between 1 and 2 years.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen Okay. Thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Duke, You're recognized.
Representative Hope Duke Thank you, Mr. Chair. And maybe both of you can address this question if you feel like it is needed. So my understanding is oftentimes our school districts and our teachers go through and they collaborate and they pick out essential standards that the ones that they particularly want to focus on. So what this bill ensures, I mean, I'm thinking this is maybe we're trying to ensuring that these topics are included in the essential standards that are focused on in the classroom and maybe not ones that are put on the second tier of if we get through these topics in our textbook or in our instruction time, we'll come back and get this.
Is that part of what we're trying to do here is to ensure that these are standards that are focused on and maybe elaborated a little bit more on? And I will add to that, I'm a former social studies teacher. Long time ago. But I feel pretty confident most of our teachers are pretty well equipped, I would hope so, with knowledge on some of these topic areas to be able to enrich it if that's what's needed to be done along with the standards.
Because I don't think we're looking at revamping, we're looking at maybe enriching. And so if you all could speak to that as far as if that's kind of maybe what generated this is making sure it's an essential standard, which, in my opinion, their standards are all essential. But sometimes we create tiers of them in our academic systems.
Courtney Salas Ford So the way I read the bill, yes, it's ensuring that all of these concepts and ideas are part of the core academic standards that would be taught in a course. And so it wouldn't be an option. It would be however a teacher chooses to incorporate it, that these standards are taught, are met and that students are meeting the expectations that are set forth in those standards.
Representative Scott Richardson And that's the intent of the bill is to ensure that the standards are updated to require that we address these concerns. It's very important that we have a clear understanding of, that we are teaching a clear understanding of what a constitutional republic is and why we have that and why we've seen so many problems with other types of government so that our students can grow to a point that they are positioned well to improve on our constitutional republic and improve the environment that we have and that they are active.
And you'll see in the bill itself we want to stress how important it is that we have a very active population in our constitutional republic. That's how we remain strong. Diversity of ideas and the ability to come together and choose the collective best, if you will, for our citizenry. So that's the intent of the bill, to make sure that these things are being presented in a regular format so that our students do grow and do understand the value that they can put into our government as active participants.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Gonzales Worthen, You're recognized.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen Yes. So if this is placed and we move forward, how are we going to know that our students are mastering what's in the bill?
Courtney Salas Ford So once it's included in the academic standards, obviously that starts to be included in instruction and then is part of the assessment process. Students will start to be assessed on the information that is tied to the standards. That's part of our new Atlas system. You know, we may have to look at test questions to make sure that they also address that, but that was why it was so important for us to have a new assessment that was tied to our standards so that we can very accurately and specifically measure our students meeting our expected outcomes.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen Okay. Follow up question. So do we already have evidence that this is not being taught at the level that it needs to be this particular topic or not quite yet?
Courtney Salas Ford That's not something that we have specifically looked at. We could do that.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen So we don't really have any evidence that this is at this time.
Courtney Salas Ford That's not something we've looked for.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
Representative Scott Richardson And I'd like to answer that question as well. I think that's the importance of the bill, is that we haven't placed a high level of importance to these subjects. So we want to make sure that we are addressing those and that we are drawing attention to them. I think that's the purpose and the point of the bill.
Representative Keith Brooks My apologies. You're recognized.
Representative Diana Gonzales Worthen Thank you. So then would by placing this would be our first set of baseline data for this. So we can do a pre and post. Because right now that doesn't exist.
Representative Scott Richardson To answer that, I guess if it doesn't exist, you wouldn't be able to do a pre, but you certainly could do a post reinforcement.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative McGruder, you're recognized.
Representative Jessie McGruder My question is, in regard to professional development, as an educator, I know everything is pretty much planned out. And again, I love the spirit of the bill. But as the timing, professional development for this summer is probably already prepared, how are we going to implement this in such a quick manner to professional development?
Courtney Salas Ford I think as an educator you'd agree that they are great at adapting and so if necessary to comply with a timeline, I mean, changes could be made. Again, obviously the longer that we have, the more thorough we can be in adapting professional development and making sure that it's taught. But again, as part of the standard review process, we would also be looking at the professional development. Do we need to focus more on particular subjects or topics to make sure that teachers are aware of those standards? I think, could it be done by this summer? Yes. Could it be done more thoroughly if we had longer? Yes.
Representative Jessie McGruder Thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Barnett, you're recognized.
Representative Lincoln Barnett Yes. I had a question for Representative Richardson. Is there a particular reason why this bill does not include emphasizing the ways in which the U.S. has erred in being a democratic government and how this country has worked to correct those past failures?
Representative Scott Richardson And I think that you kind of line out the exact challenge that I'm trying to present and bring to light that the U.S. government is not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic, and it's extremely important that we're presenting that to our students on a regular basis to reinforce why we're a constitutional republic and not a democracy, because democracies continue to fail all across the world. And they create all kinds of problems for their own citizenry.
This bill in no way suggests that the constitutional republic is perfect. It does suggest that we make it more perfect by being an active citizenry and that we are all active and participating with the government style. In democracies and autocratic governments, those individuals have significantly less ability to influence, if any, ability to influence that government. Which is why the Constitutional Republic has worked for as long as it has and has empowered our citizens the way it has.
Our constitutional republic is subservient to us. We have the ability to change its direction. We have the ability to influence how it impacts us. And we do that on a regular basis. And I think that's the exact point of this bill, making sure that we are reinforcing that to our citizenry, especially at the student level.
Representative Keith Brooks Seeing no additional questions, there is no one to signed up to speak for or against the bill. Representative Richardson, are you ready to close for your bill?
Representative Scott Richardson I am ready to close for my bill. It's evident that the committee has some concerns about the amount of time that the department would have to implement this. So it's my request if the committee will allow it, that I'll once again pull this bill back.
We'll address the time frame. I'm happy to do that. We can also address my grammar challenges in the bill text itself. I'll be happy to address those and get this cleaned up so the committee can feel very confident that we can move forward with a solid bill as we go forward. So if it is the will of committee, I would love to be able to do that.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, Representative Richardson. So just to put a bow on that, you're going to pull the bill down, go back and amend it one more time relative to time frames, a little bit of grammar and then bring it back to the committee. And hopefully we've had most of our discussion at this point. And then we can knock it out next time.
And I will say to your credit, and I think the whole committee would be appreciative that virtually everything that the committee has brought to your attention, you've been gracious to go back in and adjust and correct. And so I think that speaks well to us getting to a great place on legislation. So thank you for being willing to do that.
Representative Scott Richardson Well, I appreciate that. Committee, and that's what I consider this to be a process. I want to make sure that we're all comfortable with it moving forward. And I appreciate the comments the committee has made and we'll get this amended and hopefully we can get some buy in and get it moving forward. So thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, members. We will now move to HB 1215. Representative Bentley, we do have an amendment on this bill. Representative Bentley, you're recognized to present your amendment.
Representative Mary Bentley Thank you, Chairman. Colleagues, pleasure to come to the Education Committee, one of my favorite committees. And thank you all for having me here this morning. The staff will bring the amendment around. This amendment is on the request of my superintendents, a number of superintendents that I heard from across the state.
So on their behalf, I'm adjusting this bill with a slight amendment to allow it to be two adults that are of opposite sex of the students that they will be addressing in the locker room. So if you guys will take a minute to-- I'll let it come around. But at the request of my superintendents, which the whole amendment was for, we're going to go ahead. And I think it was just some cross communication on there. So this amendment will make sure there's two adults always, but the adults can be of the opposite sex of the student athletes.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Bentley has presented the amendment. Everyone's getting a copy of it now. Are there questions on the amendment? Seeing no questions, I have a motion on the table to adopt the amendment. All in favor, say aye. Is there any discussion on the motion? I apologize. Just kidding. No discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Any opposed. Congratulations, your amendment is adopted. Representative Bentley you're recognized to present HB 1215 as amended.
Representative Mary Bentley Thank you, Chairman. Some of you folks were not here last session when I brought forth the bill to make sure that we kept our young girls safe in the bathroom, to make sure that we had those of the same sex in the bathroom. And so we passed that bill. This committee was gracious to move it forward. And when we get to the rule process, I had brought this bill before our superintendents and our education association, those folks, and everybody was on board.
And I thought we had crossed all our T's and dotted our I's and we get to the rule process and realized we had not. So I'm bringing forth an amendment to realize that I'm always willing to make a good bill better. So that's what we're doing today. We are allowing with proper precautions at halftime for the coaches to come into the locker room to visit with their students as long as there has been a student to come out and say, all the girls are dressed, everybody's appropriately dressed, and there are two adults at all times in the locker room, to speak to our students.
Some of our schools have gone to great expense to put televisions in there, to have replays of what the other team has done, and I did not want to disrupt that at all. Again, I thought we had addressed this in the original bill and come to find out we did not address it. So this bill goes forward. I did send it through AAA I thought everybody was happy.
And then once I filed the bill, I started getting emails and phone calls from our superintendents asking me, please, with our smaller school districts, sometimes it's tough for us to get to a member of the opposite sex to go in there. Can we just make sure it's two adults always present? And I said, sure. I want the whole bill to make things better for our schools and our superintendents and make sure we have good teams playing out there. They can have halftime as they have in the past. So with that, I'll be happy to take any questions.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, Representative Bentley. Are there questions on HB 1215? Representative McGruder, you're recognized.
Representative Jessie McGruder My question is the fiscal impact of this bill. Being a coach myself and I've coached at smaller schools, sometimes you only have one coach on staff. Fiscal impact, are we going to add funding for an additional coach?
Representative Mary Bentley Does not have to be an employee of the school. It can be another adult that's present, a parent or a volunteer. Does not have to be another coach. It has to be another adult. I don't think in this day and age it'd be appropriate for any opposite sex coach to go into a locker room by themselves. Just what we have going on, I think it'd be very unwise for a coach of the opposite sex to go in the locker room without another adult present. So it doesn't have to be a staff member. There is no fiscal impact. The fiscal impact is zero, as you can see from there. So there is no fiscal impact.
Representative Keith Brooks Are there additional questions by the committee? Representative Vaught, you're recognized.
Representative Mary Bentley Thank you. Representative Bentley, I appreciate all your work on this. I know that we had some issues come up about this exact thing. I understand why you're trying to fix it. And I appreciate your work on this because I know it's been like a year or maybe a little bit longer than that, us trying to fix this for all the schools. So I appreciate your work.
Representative Mary Bentley I would agree. Thank you. Again, it does take a little time sometimes for rules to come out. With the LEARNS Act, there was a big lag, so it was quite a while before we realized that we had inadvertently left that part out of the bill. So thank you, Representative Vaught, I do agree.
Representative Keith Brooks Seeing no additional questions by the committee, there is no one signed up to speak for or against. Representative Bentley, Would you like to close for your bill?
Representative Mary Bentley Again, I'm just trying to make a good bill better, and I appreciate your support.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Bentley is closed for a bill. We have a motion on the table of do pass. Is there any discussion on the motion as amended? I'm sorry. Do pass as amended. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing no discussion on the motion, all in favor, say aye. All opposed. Congratulations, Representative Bentley. You have passed your bill as amended.
Representative Mary Bentley Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Committee. I appreciate it.
Representative Keith Brooks Committee, Now we will move to Representative Bentley again with HB 1180. First, there is an amendment to be adopted. Staff is passing out the amendment on this. So Representative Bentley, you are recognized to present your amendment to HB 1180.
Representative Mary Bentley Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, committee. I have been waiting two years to run this bill. I'm really excited about presenting the Baby Olivia bill today. The amendment that we have, I thought I had addressed again when I sent that to staff, but when I looked at it again, I realized the amendment did not cover everything I wanted to do. So we're happy to do that here in committee.
All this amendment simply does is remove the cause of action that we had in there with the attorney general. Completely removes that. And so this bill, we'll make sure our superintendents do that through their assurances at the end of the year. So we will no longer have a cause of action in this bill. So it completely removes that with the attorney general, and that's what the amendment does. I'd be happy to take any questions.
Representative Keith Brooks Are there any questions on the amendment? I have a motion to adopt by Representative Meeks. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing no discussion, all in favor, say aye. Opposed. Congratulations. Your amendment has been adopted. Representative Bentley, you're now recognized to present HB 1180 as amended.
Representative Mary Bentley Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, committee. I want to start out this bill today with one of my favorite scriptures in Psalms 139 verses 13 through five. The whole Bible, I love to read, but this part is really very special to me.
'You formed my innermost being, shaping my delicate inside and intricate outside. You wove them all together in my mother's womb. I thank you, God, for making me so mysteriously complex. Everything you do is marvelously breathtaking. It simply amazes me to think about it, how thoroughly you know me, Lord. You even formed every bone in my body when you created me in the secret place. Carefully, skillfully, you shape me from nothing to something.'
As a young child, I have always been in awe of the human body. It just fascinates me all that God did in our human bodies, even how our eyeball works. It just fascinated me to study about the eyeball. I think that we should bring some more awe and wonder into our classroom. And I think our students should be in amazement, in awe of the human body, how fascinating, how it works and how all of our universe fits together.
I love what our Representative Stephen Meeks is doing with his planetarium around the students in Arkansas. Many of my students have been able to enjoy his planetarium and see how the planet's orbit around the earth and just how fascinating it all is. I think our school should be, again, a place of awe and wonder.
When I was a nurse, one of my first jobs was at ICU at Children's Hospital. When I was first there, early 1980s, a little time ago. But anyway, when we first were doing ultrasounds there, they were just little pixel-y things on the screen. It just amazed me how the surgeons could see the valves of the heart and how they were all working. I just saw little dots on there. But the longer I was there, the more I saw the ultrasounds and I saw how intricate they were. Now we have, goodness, 3Ds and 4Ds and we can see our precious grandchildren before they ever get here.
So it amazes me how it has been getting better in times. Those little blurry dots that we used to see back in the 1980s were not as crystal clear. And just ultrasounds are fascinating things. We use them in so many areas, even with our mammograms. Now we're using ultrasounds all over the place. So with that, we're able to see things we were never able to see before, things in the human body that we weren't able to see before. So now we see details that were never available before.
And that's why I want to bring forth this bill. So what is the Baby Olivia Bill? And I'm going to give you a little bit about what it is before we talk about the exact details. So Baby Olivia is a medically accurate animated glimpse of human life from the moment of fertilization. This story is a growth of Olivia as she progresses from one developmental stage to the next in preparation for her continued life outside of the womb.
Baby Olivia was created by live action in collaboration with a panel of medical doctors, including experts in embryonic and fetal development. Dr. David Ballinger, Dr. Donna Harrison, Dr. Tara Sandler Lee, Dr. Katrina Firth, Michelle Cartel M.D., and Jefferson Barrow' Doctor of Medical Science. These have each endorsed this when it was done. So I want you to know that was developed by a panel of doctors. Every single word, every image has been thoroughly gone over by these physicians to make sure it's completely accurate and it's truthful. It's important to note the gestational markers in this are calculated by fertilization or conception, not the last menstrual period.
So lots of times when a woman goes to the doctor, the baby's growth is determined by the last menstrual period. This is a biological video. It's based on when the conception occurred, not the last menstrual period. Many of the developmental facts shared in Baby Olivia are sourced from the Endowment for Human Development, which is a nonprofit organization dedicated to improving health, science, education and public health.
Its website states that it is committed to neutrality regarding all controversial bioethical issues, adding our board of directors, our board of advisors, our staff and our volunteers include accomplished educators, researchers, authors, programmers and clinicians from a variety of scientific and business disciplines who share the common goal of improving lifelong health through prenatal development based education. Science educators across the United States have endorsed the organization's award winning content. National Geographic also distributes their material.
Olivia draws back the curtain on the womb, giving us a realistic glimpse of the baby that's within like we use with our ultrasounds. Each and every word and every image in the short video had the backing of experts in embryonic and fetal development. And I want you guys to be sure that's why. I'm going to go over a little bit of this, some of the words that are spoken. So the very first words that are spoken to Baby Olivia is, This is the moment that life begins. The Endowment for Human Development states, biological speaking, fertilization or conception is the beginning of human development.
The journal Nature stated in its 2020 issue, the life cycle of mammals begins when the sperm enters an egg. The textbook Foundations of Embryology likewise states the time of fertilization represents the starting point in life history or the ontogeny of the individual. So we can again say the very first words have been proven scientifically that for mammals, human development begins when the sperm enters the egg and conception occurs.
We also know that fertilization, her gender and ethnicity, hair color, eye color and countless traits are already determine. The endowment of human development states the zygote contains 46 unique chromosomes with the entire genetic blueprint of an individual. Science Daily knows that the sex of a baby is determined by its chromosome makeup at conception. An embryo with two X chromosomes will produce a girl. An embryo with an x y chromosome combination results in a boy. WebMD also states at the moment of fertilization, the baby's genetic makeup is complete, including whether it's a boy or girl.
So I can go on and on with each single word, each single image. And this video takes a little while, so I won't go through each one. But I watched this video in just amazement, amazement to see how beautiful it is. And I know this is such a perfect way for kids to learn because they can see an image. We could talk forever and we could just have a boring topic up there on the whiteboard and talk about each stage and what happens at each stage.
And I remember those discussions in nursing school going over human development, but how much easier it is to see a beautiful little 3 minute video and all this comes to life. And so you can see how each stage develops and how the beautiful embryo develops into a fetus and how the fetus becomes an infant baby. So that's what happens with that. So now that we've got a little bit about the details of the video, let me go to the bill itself.
So we will simply be adding a three minute video. And under LEARNS in the fifth grade we start teaching a health class. So in health class we'll have a three minute video every year from fifth grade moving forward, which again lines up with LEARNS. I went to see Secretary Oliva on this. And I showed this to the governor. Both are neutral on the bill and have showing no problems moving forward with the bill. Actually, some of the amendments I brought forth were from Secretary Oliva that I put in here.
So there's absolutely no cost to the school for this to take place. It's a three minute video that they can download. Live Action has granted a non-exclusive license to use this resource for educational purposes in perpetuity and at no cost. Live Action has also provide the resource unbranded for educational purposes, so when the kids see it, they not going to see Live Action or know anywhere where it came from. Just be anonymous or whatever, a video that they've downloaded, like they do many other things that they see in school. But there'll be no mention of Live Action on the video there.
So with that, I think I've said enough. I think it's a pretty simple bill that I'm really excited about. I think it would be great for, again, for kids to see what I have always been fascinated by, our human body and how beautiful it is and how the development of the human body, how we have billions of cells in a short time and how the heart is developed in just 21 days. It really is a fascinating thing. So with that, committee, I'd be happy to take any questions. Thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, Representative Bentley, for presenting the bill. Representative Meeks, you are recognized for a question.
Representative Stephen Meeks Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Representative, for bringing this bill. I guess the only question that I have is you currently have it as beginning in fifth grade. I'm wondering if that is maybe too soon for this topic. Is it the right time? What do other states do? So can you kind of address that issue at what grade is the appropriate grade to begin having these discussions?
Representative Mary Bentley I think it is a perfect time because young girls are about to start their menstrual cycle during that time. I think it's the perfect time for us to start it. So I reall think it's the perfect time for us to start with a very-- I have shown this video to my four and five year old grandkids who absolutely love it. It's a really fascinating thing. So this does not show the procreative act at all. This is about simply biology from the beginning of conception forward so parents can discuss when they want to. But again, girls are about to start their period shortly, and some during that time period in the fifth grade. So I think it's the perfect time for us to start. And it has been passed in other states, and that's the time frame that they start.
Representative Keith Brooks Are there additional questions by the committee? Representative Garner, you're recognized.
Representative Denise Garner I just would like to know what ACOG thinks and what the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, what-- they are kind of the--
Representative Mary Bentley I don't agree with a lot of what ACOG says. So I don't see ACOG as an expert. I went to Secretary Oliva here. And ACOG, there are some things that I don't agree with them on. So I'm not trying to make this political. This is just really a-- I don't know if you've watched it or not, the video. So it is, again, embryonic experts and fetal experts. I've given you, exact backups for every word is accurate. So I have not reached out to ACOG. Don't see any reason to reach out to ACOG when experts have already proved it's been scientific. It's been through lawsuits in other states. So it's already been through the wringer, has been completely accurate.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Duke, you're recognized.
Representative Denise Garner Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Representative Bentley. I have one quick question. My understanding when my kids went through school, in fifth grade, they had videos or classes that dealt with puberty and different things. And parents had the ability to exempt them or to sign them out. So if they didn't feel comfortable with the content and stuff, I assume that would still be the case with this video or this class.
Representative Mary Bentley Certainly. Yeah. There's nothing in this bill that precludes a parent from saying I don't think my kids are quite ready to watch it. So absolutely nothing in here precludes a parent from saying, I'm not ready for my child to see the video. Thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Just as a follow up on that, is there language within the bill relative to an opt out?
Representative Mary Bentley There is not. But for any parent, we have other statutes where parents can preclude their kids from, and there's nothing here precludes that from happening or the school making it their policy, as we do with other health things.
Representative Keith Brooks Are there additional questions from the committee? Representative Garner, your light is on. Seeing no additional questions, we do have some audience members that are signed up to speak on the bill. We will take these in order. Our first one is, I hope I pronounce the first name correctly. Tien Estel, you're recognized to speak against the bill. Please introduce yourself for the record, then you're recognized. Thank you. If you would, please, if you would, please hit your microphone. The button.
Tien Estelle Perfect. Thank you. Thank you for that. That's much better. Good morning. Hello. I am Tien Estelle, and I'm here today because I strongly oppose HB 1180, otherwise known as the Baby Olivia Act. Requiring or as we're just finding out, parents could opt out, so the suggestion of and the mandate but also maybe you can opt out but requiring children to view a medically inaccurate video created and promoted by an extremist group is unethical, unfair and dangerous.
The video was created by Live Action, and they are an anti-abortion extremist group known for their heavily edited videos, fraudulent claims of malpractice and deceptive schemes to trick providers of reproductive care. Their goal is not education. They create and distribute propaganda, and their mission is to advance their own ideology. Our students deserve facts, accurate information about their bodies and reproductive health and science, that's not just an attempt to push an agenda.
So I attended K through 12 in Arkansas, and I remember the very limited sex education we had in school. Right? It was very limited. My classmates and I weren't offered much, and I recall the conversations we had in classrooms being rushed, taboo and less than elaborate. Less than elaborate. It was unfair then, and it still remains true. Youth need preparation for making big decisions, and this preparation requires complex inquiry and unbiased information. I repeat unbiased information, which you cannot get from an extremist group pushing an agenda. And I'm going to quote now from Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families website.
Arkansas ranks 45th in child well-being, according to the 2024 Kids Count Data book, which is a 50 state report compiled of like analyzing how kids are faring in a post-pandemic America. The data shows that Arkansas leaders must do more to protect children and prepare them to learn so they can flourish in adulthood. HB 1180 does not prepare children to flourish. This same study shows Arkansas is 36th out of 50 in education. Our youth are already at an academic disadvantage. Please do not allow the baby Olivia AI video to become yet another barrier to education in Arkansas public and charter schools. And thank you for your time and consideration.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you for your comments. Are there questions by the committee? Representative Beck, you're recognized.
Representative Rick Beck Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is, you made reference that there was some information that was wrong in the video. Now, I've watched the video and I didn't see any but elaborate on that for me.
Tien Estelle Well, there's, the part where they're showing, they're giving this AI image of what a zygote and an embryo and into a fetus looks like, it's inaccurate. If you take it frame by frame and you look and see. And then also the concept of saying that as soon as an egg is fertilized, there's only two options xs and xy. That is genetically inaccurate. That is an inaccurate genetic analysis. And then the actual images of this aI baby are inaccurate. The forming, the stages, each stage of development.
They are trying to show this very like, you know, like after a when a baby is born and there's actually a child born, the way that a child looks then they're replicating that into stages of development that are medically inaccurate. And I watched it and I've talked to other people and I've done my research on it so. The genetic, the genetic assumption is incorrect. The images are incorrect. And the thing that gets me the most in addition to this is that the people who are pushing this are known for their extremist anti-abortion agenda. And they go to Planned Parenthood and they trick people and they have had fraudulent, like medical fraudulent claims of malpractice.
Their history as an organization started because of their extremist anti-abortion idea. So you're already starting a video going into a school created by an extremist group that already has stated their agenda, are known for their extremist views, and have been harassing health providers of reproductive health care for many years. It's not fair for kids to see that. It's not fair.
Representative Rick Beck So I will try. And I appreciate you coming and testifying. So the inaccuracies that you're talking about, your considerations, are they with the people who developed it or the video.
Tien Estelle [Interrupting undecipherable]
Representative Rick Beck Let me-- let me finish. Or are they, I think you made reference to the point that maybe the images of the baby were inaccurate.
Tien Estelle Yes.
Representative Rick Beck If you could elaborate on that.
Tien Estelle You know what? I don't think I need to because I watched it. I did my research. And anyone that watches it and looks at it from a scientific frame can see it. And the people who created it, as I said, are extremist with one agenda. So they have portrayed that in their video. That's all I would like to speak on.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Cozart, you're recognized for a question.
Representative Bruce Cozart I believe she's already left.
Representative Keith Brooks Thanks for your time. I'd like to recognize our next citizen, Mr. Jimmie Cavin, You're recognized to speak for the bill. If you would, please introduce yourself and then you're recognized.
Jimmie Cavin Yes, sir. Jimmy Cavin with Arkansas First New. But I'm here to represent myself as a personal citizen. You know, it's no secret me and Representative Bentley, we don't agree on everything, but I am in lockstep with her on this. This is a great bill. Like so many others, like so many others in this room, as matter of fact, I have fought against indoctrination in schools and to put education back in schools. This bill does that.
There are those that claim that this bill is misleading or this legislation is misleading and that it's indoctrination. Let me read you the definition of biology, a branch of knowledge that deals with living organisms and vital processes. This bill requires discussion and instruction into the biological process of human development inside the womb. It's not indoctrination. It's biology. And how is education into a biological process indoctrination? That dumbfounded me that anybody would even make that argument.
Now, I will tell you, I watched this video and I'm sure everybody on this committee has and I hope everybody in this room has, because I will tell you, I'm about to turn 63, but I've learned a lot. I learned some exciting things from this. I didn't know fertilization, that gender, hair color and eye color and more are determined. I had no idea. I didn't know at three weeks in a heartbeat can be detected. I didn't know at four weeks arms and legs appear. I didn't know that between 5 and 6 weeks that babies in the womb start to have reactive movements. I didn't know at six weeks that brain activity in a baby can be recorded and bone formation begins. I didn't know that between 11 and 12 weeks that a baby playfully, playfully moves about in the in the womb and has taste buds. That amazed me.
At 18 weeks, ultrasounds show speaking movement in the voice box. At 27 weeks, a baby in the womb can respond to light, that a baby in the womb can recognize voices, recognize lullabies, and recognize stories. This is science. This is education. And this is what we need to put back in schools. Now, to the point that the young lady made about the AI generated image. I think Miss Bentley takes care of that because also in the bill is I understand it's AI generated. I understand it. But I think it also takes care of itself because there's also a requirement to watch the ultrasound which is not AI generated. Okay. So I think that takes care of that.
So I am excited to see this bill. I wish I would have had this when I was in high school. All I got was a dead cat. We dissected a frog. Okay. Which serves no purpose to me whatsoever. But it almost 63 years of ag,. I watched a three minute video that taught me something. When we talk about age appropriateness, if you watch that video, I can't imagine the age that it's not appropriate for. Whether it's three years old or 90 years old, you're going to get something out of this. And I'm excited. I'm excited to see this legislation and I'll be glad to take any questions.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, Mr. Cavin. Other questions for Mr. Cavin. I see no questions. Thank you for your testimony. Next up to speak against the bill. Ms. Kristen Stewart, You're recognized. If you would, please introduce yourself to the committee and then you're recognized.
Kristen Stewart Hello, my name is Kristen Stewart and I am here as a mom of two kids in the Little Rock School District. I'm here today to speak about the Baby Olivia Act and how it mandates the inclusion of specific fetal development materials in public school curricula. While its proponents argue that the bill provides scientific education on prenatal development, the legislation is ultimately a misleading and politically motivated effort to influence students' views on abortion rather than a neutral position of scientific facts.
As a mom, I strongly oppose this bill due to its biased nature, its potential to undermine comprehensive sex education and its disregard for medical and scientific consensus. First, the bill is not a neutral education tool, but rather a targeted effort to shape students' beliefs about abortion. The inclusion of the Baby Olivia video, a product created by an anti-abortion organization, demonstrates a clear ideological motive rather than an impartial approach to fetal development. Education should be based on medically accurate, peer reviewed information, not politically charged materials designed to manipulate students' emotions.
This bill sets a dangerous precedent for allowing partisan propaganda in school curriculum under the guise of education. As a parent, I want my children to receive fact based age appropriate education that empowers them to make informed decisions about their health. Studies consistently show that medically accurate, evidence based sex education, including information on contraception, consent and reproductive health, leads to better outcomes for students. By focusing on fetal development in a way that serves an anti abortion agenda, the bill risks undermining efforts to provide students with the full spectrum of knowledge needed to make responsible choices.
The bill disregards the medical and scientific community's nuanced understanding of fetal development. While it is true that fetal development can be observed at different stages, the bill presents a simplified and emotionally charged narrative that does not reflect the complexities of pregnancy, viability or maternal health considerations. Science education should be rooted in established medical consensus rather than an ideological messaging designed to sway public opinion on a contentious political issue. Again, as a parent, I want my children to learn an environment free from political interference where they are given accurate information rather than propaganda.
House Bill 1180 is not about providing students with unbiased scientific education, but rather about advancing a political agenda. Legislators should reject this bill in favor of policies that support medically accurate reproductive health education. Instead of imposing ideological narratives on students, Arkansas should focus on equipping them with the knowledge they need to make informed and autonomous decisions about their bodies and their futures. Thank you for your time.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you, Ms. Stewart. Would you be willing to take some questions?
Kristen Stewart Sure.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Brown, you're recognized.
Representative Karilyn Brown Thank you, Mr. Chair. Did the video say anything about sex or reproductive health or any of those concerns that you expressed as being political? Did the video say anything about that, or was it not simply a video of human growth and development inside the womb?
Kristen Stewart But it's medically inaccurate.
Representative Karilyn Brown You're sure of that?
Kristen Stewart I have talked to several doctors, several OB-GYNs that state this is categorically false. I am not a medical professional. But everyone that I've talked to also believes that this is propaganda, not medically accurate.
Representative Karilyn Brown Well, I don't see what the basis of that claim is. It doesn't really talk about sex or any of that. It just simply talks about--
Kristen Stewart [Interrupting]-- It's designed to try to give a different narrative of fetal development to be emotionally charged.
Representative Karilyn Brown Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Painter, you're recognized for a question.
Representative Stetson Painter Can you give us examples of how it's medically inaccurate?
Kristen Stewart So the different stages are not entirely accurate. I would have-- I wrote it down, but I can't remember which.
Representative Stetson Painter Okay. And then you said emotionally charged. Can you kind of go on a little bit more elaboration in that?
Kristen Stewart Yeah. So it just has the fetal development at inaccurate stages as kicking. And it's just not medically accurate from everything that I have read and talked to other physicians.
Representative Stetson Painter I get that, according to you and folks that you may have talked to, you said it's medically inaccurate. But you said it was emotionally charging. Can you--
Kristen Stewart Yeah. So it's trying to, I don't know how to put this. It's trying to just kind of glorify having babies and the fetal development as being earlier than maybe it actually is.
Representative Stetson Painter Okay. Thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Seeing no additional questions, thank you for your comments.
Kristen Stewart Thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Recognize Crystal Maynard to speak for the bill. Crystal, if you would please introduce yourself for the record, then you're recognized.
Crystal Maynard Good afternoon or good morning. Crystal Maynard. Me and my husband are pastors at Tag Church here in Little Rock, and I am for the bill. I have a daughter who is in public school. And I think this is a wonderful bill. I trust Miss Bentley here, trust her. Her videos, we have seen those. And I'm thankful that this bill is put forth for our public schools.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you for your comments. Are there questions by the committee? Seeing no questions, we appreciate your time. I'd like to recognize Carol Egan to speak against the bill. If you would please introduce yourself for the record then you're recognized.
Carol Egan Is it on? Okay. Hi, I'm Carol Egan. I'm just a citizen of Arkansas, and I first want to thank the committee for hearing me and also thank Representative Bentley for trying to introduce human growth and development back into the Arkansas public schools, because it's a very important thing. We have a very high rate of teenage pregnancies. So anything we can do to educate children about sex is is very important. And I know that isn't the intent of this particular video. I want to share with you a brief story.
When I worked with Hall High in my church, we had volunteers, retired people at my church who were willing to go to Hall High when it was still a regular public school and help the students, you know, with whatever needs they had, math, reading, English. And when I met with this school before we started our program, one of the administrators at the school begged me to find a health professional who would teach sex education to their mothers, to the students in the school who are already mothers because they didn't understand how that happened to them. And I find that inexcusable.
But so with regard to this particular bill and I'm sorry for getting on my soapbox there, this video, I believe, is inappropriate for elementary school students and partially because of our lack of sex education. To show this video to ten and 11 year olds which uses terminology that they are not going to be familiar with, they have not learned what a uterus is. They do not know what fertilization is. Those little swimming fishes that are introduced at the beginning of the video are going to bring ,cause more questions and concerns than I think we, you know, anybody in the video intended. And I don't know that we're going to equip our parents to answer those questions if we're not going to also teach the larger subject. So I'm just concerned that now I didn't understand when I read the bill, and I know there's been a couple of iterations of it that they're going to have to see it every year.
So I'm not quite sure I understand why that is. I question why with our schools struggling as they do, we would force our schools to show a video with questionable value in terms of educational value and whose information is considered problematic and actually inaccurate by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, which then further contributes to our students poor educational experience because we're giving them bad information. Now, you've been I know a couple of people have asked the question of why it's inaccurate. And Representative Bentley did explain that. But I don't know if you understand the significance of that inaccuracy in the video.
They, everything, every stage of life that, I forgot your name, but that he referred to is inaccurate because they're starting at a different time point. So it seems like, you know, at three weeks this is happening. But bt everybody else, the, you know, the gynecologists and obstetricians have a different starting point. So when somebody tells you you're ten weeks pregnant, that is based on when you start your last menstrual cycle. Right. They're not saying ten weeks from when the egg was fertilized.
So the time frame and the inaccuracies of the video all stem from that one little difference of the starting point. So what looks like a 16 week old baby is not when they say you're 16 weeks pregnant. What they refer to as a 16 week baby in the video is not when you're 16 weeks pregnant. And that inaccuracy is very confusing. I don't know why they chose to do that. Right. Because they could have used the same terminology that the standard is in the industry. And I'm not sure why they chose not to do that unless it's as other people fear. And it's, there's a little bit of propaganda in there.
So I think you should consider it all for introducing human growth and development into our schools. I think we need to be really cautious about what age we're doing that with and what the curriculum really is so that it absolutely helps our children understand and deal with their bodies, know what's happening to them. And, you know, it becomes a part of an overall strategy for Arkansans to also address, you know, teen pregnancy and other issues. So thank you very much for your time. If you have any questions, I'm happy to take them. Don't know if I'll be able to answer them.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you for your comments. Are there questions from the committee? Seeing no questions, we appreciate your time. Final person signed up and recognized, Debbie Goolsbee to speak against the bill. If you would, please introduce yourself for the record then you're recognized.
Debbie Goolsby I'm Debbie Goolsby, and I'll make this rather short because you've heard some excellent testimony about how biased this baby Olivia is. The fact that it was created by an anti-abortion, that's, that should be enough to stop it right there. When Representative Bentley talked about fifth grade, this starts at fifth grade, and a lot of times the fifth grade girls are starting their menstrual periods. This could be a little confusing to them being able to have a baby and seeing this film. I wished I had one of those.
You know, it's highly emotional. The soaring violin just makes it very emotional. And I really believe one reason for this is to try to shame people who have had abortions, because this is so lovely. This is so wonderful. And look, you had an abortion. I had an abortion. And I don't need to tell anybody on this committee what my situation was. But this this video is meant to shame me, I think, and other women who have had abortions. I went on to have my son. And you think, okay, you had this boy. You didn't have that baby.
Well, I had my son, which I wouldn't trade for anything. It's just the life that I have chosen to live on this earth. And I just am very upset that this film would be shown to children at fifth grade. And then as seniors, you know, just to show something and talk about something scientifically, there's a sex education, human sexuality course called Our Whole Lives. There are things out there where you can teach human sexuality. I've even seen some people on the committee today when they had, when they had to say the word sex, it was sex. You know, we're not comfortable with it. And we need to teach our kids correctly about human sexuality. So I guess I'll take a question.
Representative Keith Brooks Thank you for your comments. Representative Brown, you're recognized for a question.
Representative Karilyn Brown I tend to disagree with you. In my opinion, the videos is beautiful and it shows the beauty of life developing in the womb. And this video was not intended to shame anybody who has had an abortion. I believe the intention with this video, what I take from it, is to accurately depict what occurs when fertilization takes place.
Would you not agree that the abortion folks who, in my opinion, are rather radical, to misinform young women that the emerging developing baby is just a glob of cells, that it's nothing, and when you see this video, you see the baby has a brain? It has a heart, it has movement, it has hearing, it has different stages. To me, that is so beautiful. And I think it's important for young girls to understand that they're not creating a blob that they can just get rid of.
Debbie Goolsby Well, you're going to get into the age old argument about all this. When does life begin?
Representative Karilyn Brown Is a blob an accurate description, a blob, just a blob?
Debbie Goolsby You could call it that. Yeah. It's not a human being. You know, in the Jewish tradition, it's not til it has its first breath of life. There's a religious component to this. And this video is further. It is beautiful. You can get teary eyed watching it, you know, and but it's meant to be emotional. And if the film had been produced by Planned Parenthood, there may have been a different take in here. It comes from a politically biased organization.
Representative Karilyn Brown So I agree that the video is beautiful. And beautiful things are emotional. So you think that being emotional is not a good thing?
Debbie Goolsby No, but that's what this is directed to, to these young girls. It just needs to be more realistic. It doesn't talk about, what about the, what it took to make that pregnancy? When are we going to talk about that? I just think we should be teaching correct human sexuality.
Representative Karilyn Brown But this isn't really a human sexuality video. It's a human development video.
Debbie Goolsby Well, why not teach human sexuality?
Representative Karilyn Brown But that's not the point of this legislation, wouldn't you agree?
Debbie Goolsby Well, and from my standpoint, the point of it is to provide inaccurate. People have spoken to that, how the information is inaccurate and to promote the people who made the video their agenda.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Painter, you're recognized for a question.
Representative Stetson Painter Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to make sure I heard you correct. Did you say in your opinion that life doesn't start until it takes its first first breath?
Debbie Goolsby I understand that's the Jewish tradition. It's another religious component of this whole question that not everyone has the right answer.
Representative Stetson Painter Okay. Because I figured, if my heart quits beating that I'm probably going to die. Correct?
Debbie Goolsby I would think so.
Representative Stetson Painter But if my heart is beating, I'm alive, right?
Debbie Goolsby Yeah. Even when they talk about the heart beat, you know, it's not a heart. It's some heart cells.
Representative Stetson Painter Okay. I think we respectfully disagree. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Keith Brooks Seeing no further questions, thank you for your testimony.
Debbie Goolsby Thank you.
Representative Keith Brooks Seeing no one else who's signed up to speak for or against, Representative Bentley, would you like to close for your bill? You're recognized.
Representative Mary Bentley Chairman, Committee, thank you so much for your time. Again, I'm really excited to bring this bill and I appreciate that. So let me just review a couple of things real quick. When the schools get this video, there'll be absolutely no mention of Live Action. That will be nothing on the screen, no mention of Live Action. So there's nothing related to or connected to Live Action when the children see this video. Again, it was developed by physicians and have listed the physicians at the beginning of the video and by the human embryonic-- excuse me. Let me get that correct.
The Endowment for Human Development has been very scientifically proven, every word. And so, again, this is not a sex ed class. This is human development. So, yes, it begins when that conception occurs. Again, it is scientifically proven, a mammal begins when the sperm enters the egg. That's when it begins. It bases the timeline based on fetal development, not based on when you go to see your gynecologist. It's not about that. It's not sex education. Fetal development is part of human development.
And yes, it shows every phase and it shows it beautifully so kids can see how it's developing, how an embryo developed this highway, a zygote becomes an embryo, an embryo becomes a fetus, and a fetus becomes a baby, just like we have when we're outside the womb. When we have an infant, becomes a toddler, becomes a preschool, becomes a teen, becomes an adult. Just phases of human development. This just shows a phase of human development we haven't been able to see before because we did not have ultrasounds to be able to show it. Now we can show and our kids can see how beautiful fetal development is, pure and simple. That's what it does. So again, there's no cost to the school.
The bill is about teaching children the basic facts about human development in an appropriate way. Children deserve unvarnished, authentic truth. The research does not talk about sex or mandate specific teaching of a procreative act, and parents can opt out. That's already in statute. If a parent does not want their child to see this, they don't think it's appropriate time, then they can opt out. And kids aren't going to see it every year, just when they have health class. And it depends on what your curriculum is when you're going to have health class that year. So when you're in the health class, you're going to see a three minute video and an ultrasound.
A great way to bring discussions and it's a great thing to see the truth. We want children to understand the truth, the beauty and the wonder of human life and development in the womb. And I will admit this video clearly disputes the lie that it's just a clob of cells. It is a human developing from the moment of conception until birth. And with that, colleagues, I'd appreciate a good vote.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Bentley has closed for her bill. We have a motion on the table of do pass. Is there any discussion on the motion? I'm sorry, do pass as amended. Is there any discussion on the motion? Representative Garner, you're recognized.
Representative Karilyn Brown I just want to make sure that everybody understands that the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, the group of medical professionals who deal with these aspects every day, who set the standards for women's care, say that this film is medically inaccurate. So I just, it's frustrating that to me that the folks that absolutely are in charge of evidence based peer review have said this film is medically inaccurate. And we have folks that disagree with that, the folks that set the standards for medical care for women's health have said this bill is medically inaccurate. And so I just want you just to realize that before we vote on it.
Representative Keith Brooks Representative Cozart, you're recognized.
Representative Bruce Cozart I don't disagree with what she said about somebody says it's medically inaccurate. But I can guarantee you could go to another group and they would say it is very close to being medically accurate. Is it exact? Every birth and every pregnancy is a little bit of a variation. It's never going to be exactly the same. I'm no medical doctor. I don't know that for a fact. But I believe that because sometimes you have twins, so that can be a little different than the last one. So I believe that you could take that to someone else and they're going to say, this is as accurate as you could show.
Representative Keith Brooks Is there additional discussion by the committee on the motion? Seeing no additional discussion, the motion on the table is do pass as amended on HB 1180. All in favor, say aye. All opposed? Congratulations, Representative Bentley, your bill has passed.
Representative Mary Bentley Thank you, Chairman. Thank you. Appreciate your time today.
Representative Keith Brooks Seeing no additional business before the committee, House Education is adjourned.
