Senate
February 4, 2025
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senate will be called to order. Any requests for leave at this time? [Sullivan] Thank you, Madam Secretary. Please call the roll. Thank you, Madam Secretary. If everyone in the gallery and in the chamber would please rise for a prayer followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. Senator Jamie Scott will lead us in prayer and then we will follow with the Pledge of Allegiance. Senator Scott, you're recognized. [Prayer and Pledge]
Thank you, Senator Scott, for those encouraging words. Ladies and gentlemen and the galleries, welcome to your Arkansas State Senate. It is our expectation that each of you will exercise proper decorum and govern yourselves accordingly during today's proceedings. Without objection, the rules will be suspended and the Senate will dispense with the reading of the Journal. The morning hour has now begun. [Introductions] Any other announcements or introductions? If not, Madam Secretary, are there items at the desk?
Secretary Dear Madam President, this is to inform you that on February 3rd, 2025, I reviewed and approved the following measures at the regular session of the 95th General Assembly. Senate Concurrent Resolution 1. Sincerely, Governor Sarah Sanders.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge File it.
Secretary [Engrossed Bills, Senate Bill 135].
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Education.
Secretary [Agriculture, Senate Bill, to pass]
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Calendar.
Secretary First, I'm going to read a Senate Disclosure report. We your Committee on Insurance and Commerce received the attached disclosure from Senator Penzo on February 4th, 2025, on Senate Bill 77.
Calendar.
Secretary Senate Bill 77 by Senator Mark Johnson to require the Arkansas Medicaid program to reimburse for physical therapy provided in a clinic based setting.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Calendar.
Secretary [Insurance and Commerce, Senate Bill 150, do pass.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Calendar.
Secretary [Insurance and Commerce, House Bill 1271, do pass].
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Calendar.
[Insurance and Commerce, House Bill 1273, do pass]
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Calendar.
[Joint Budget, Senate Bill 80, 105, 107, do pass]
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Calendar.
Secretary [Joint Budget, Senate Bill 108, 109, 112, 113, 114, 115, 125, 126, 129, do pass]
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Calendar.
Secretary Senate Bill 187 by Senator Irvin to amend the composition of the Arkansas Medicaid Drug Utilization Review Board to include physician assistants. Senate Bill 187.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Public Health.
Secretary House Bill 1220 by Representative Steele to amend membership of the Arkansas Natural Cultural Resource Council. House Bill 1220.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Agriculture. Thank you, Madam Secretary. Any further business or announcements? Senator Hester you're recognized.
Senator Bart Hester Hey members, I think I've visited with most of you about a motion that I'm about to make. So if I could have your attention. We have Senate and House Joint rules, Joint Committee on Energy. We've got a difference of opinion on the rule or lack thereof a rule on how a bill comes out as do pass or fail from that committee.
So I'm going to make a motion here. So my motion is that for the 95th General Assembly, Philip Treat, our parliamentarian would send anything that comes out of Joint Energy to our floor, that he would assign it to the appropriate standing committee. And any Senate Bill that is filed involving energy that he would send to a standing committee instead of a joint committee. Happy to answer any questions. That's my motion.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Any questions for Senator Hester on his motion? Seeing no questions, anyone wish to speak against or for? The senator has closed. All those in favor of the Senator's motion, please signify by saying aye. Any opposed. Ayes have it, motion passes. No further announcements. The morning hour has expired. We will begin the business agenda. We will begin with Senate Resolution 9.
Secretary Senate Resolution 9 by Senator Love celebrating Black History Month during the month of February 2025.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Love, you're recognized.
Senator Fredrick Love Thank you, Governor. Colleagues, I bring to you Senate resolution number 9, a resolution celebrating Black History Month during the month of February 2025. I had some words prepared to speak on this Black history resolution. But earlier today, I was talking with Scott Flippo. And, you know, one of the things I would always challenge people to do during Black History Month is just to learn something new about black history. And I'm still going to challenge you to do that.
But I have an additional challenge. I'm going to challenge you all to really have a meaningful conversation, a meaningful conversation with your friends here, not only in the chamber, but also in the other chamber. And I say that because you all, we won't get to know each other, we won't truly significantly get to know each other and know our history until we have these meaningful conversations.
So my challenge to you during this Black History Month is not only to learn something new about black history, but to also learn something new about your colleagues. Have that conversation, because then and only then, we can truly celebrate Black History Month. And with that, I ask for a good vote. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Thank you, Senator Love. All those in favor of Senate resolution 9 celebrating Black History Month during the month of February 2025, please signify by saying aye. Any opposed. Ayes have it. Senate Resolution 9 is adopted. We will now take up Amendment 1 to Senate Bill 18.
Secretary Amendment 1 to Senate Bill 18.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Wallace, you're recognized.
Senator Dave Wallace Thank you, Governor. Members, This bill passed out of the Senate, 22 January with 35 votes. It passed out of the House with 96 votes. We are simply adding a House sponsor. And with that, I stand by for your questions.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Any questions regarding the amendment. Anyone wish to speak against or for? Senator is closed. This will be a voice vote. All those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye. Any opposed. Ayes have it. Amendment is adopted as concurred.
Secretary Senate Bill 18 by Senator Wallace to amend Arkansas law concerning reports by Legislature Auditor of improper or illegal practices.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Wallace, you are now recognized. This will be Senate Bill 18 with the amendment concurred in as amended.
Senator Dave Wallace Members, as I had stated back on 22nd January, this bill allows just the prosecuting attorneys to make the report. It eliminates the responsibility or the requirement for the prosecuting attorneys and the attorney general to make redundant reports together. And with that, I'll stand by for your questions.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Any questions for Senator Wallace? Anyone wish to speak against or for? Senator has closed. Any objection to rolling the vote? Without objection, Madam Secretary, please roll the vote. [Vote] Any senator wish to change his or her vote? Seeing no one, please cast up the ballot. By a vote of 34 yeas, 0 nays, Senate Bill 18 passes. Please transmit to the House. I'm sorry. Enroll it. I apologize. With that, introductions. I recognize Senator Tucker. [Introductions]
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Dotson, you're recognized.
Senator Jim Dotson Thank you, Madam Governor. I need to make a motion to suspend the rule to withdraw Senate Bill 183 for purposes of amendment from Education Committee. For purposes of amendment.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge A motion to suspend the rules to withdraw 183 from Education for purposes of amendment. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Any opposed. Ayes have it.
Secretary Amendment 1. Senate Bill 183.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Dotson, you're recognized.
Senator Jim Dotson This is an amendment to add a co-sponsor on to the bill. Move we adopt it and send it to Engrossing and back to Education Committee.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge You all have heard the amendment. All those in favor please signify by saying aye. Any opposed. Ayes have it. Amendment is adopted. Please send to Engrossing. Senator Dismang, you're recognized.
Senator Jonathan Dismang Thank you. I would like to make a motion to withdraw all Senate Bill 59 for purpose of amendment from Education Committee.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Motion to withdraw 59 from Education for purposes of amendment. All those in favor please signify by saying aye. Any opposed. Ayes have it. Motion carries.
Secretary Amendment 2 to Senate Bill 59.
Senator Jonathan Dismang I'd like to make a motion to suspend the rules to adopt Amendment 2 to Senate Bill 59. This is to add co-sponsors only.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge You all have heard the amendment. All those in favor please signify by saying aye. Any opposed. Ayes have it. Amendment is adopted. Please send to Engrossing. We will now take up Senate Bill 78.
Secretary Senate Bill 78 by Senator Mark Johnson to require that the driver's instruction manual and the driver's license examination include information about the safe operation of a motor vehicle in a highway work zone.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Mark Johnson, you're recognized.
Senator Mark Johnson Thank you, Madam President. Senate Bill 78 is a simple bill that adds an emphasis in the driver instruction manual and the driver's test that all-- I always start to say young drivers, but really anyone that wants a driver's license will have to take. This was brought to me by the Asphalt Paving Association and the Association of General Contractors. It's been vetted by the State Police.
So basically it puts an emphasis for people as they take the drivers test and read the manual to understand the dangers, the specific dangers when driving in a work zone. It includes educating them on the statistics related to the number of accidents and even fatalities that happen in the work zone and the importance of the awareness of slowing down in the work zones. I always think of, and Senator Hammer you probably know that Saline County I-40 will probably be the poster child for some of these work zones as long as it's been going on there.
But I never went through there without frankly being scared to death. It seemed like every time I went through I was up against a semi about six inches away, it seemed like. But anyway, the bill is to emphasize to people when they study for and take their drivers test. I'd be happy to answer any questions, Madam President.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Any questions for Senator Mark Johnson? Senator Payton, you're recognized for a question.
Senator John Payton Thank you, Madam President. I think it's great intentions. I plan to vote for it, but I do have a curiosity question. Is there any other part of the manual and the content of the manual that we have legislated by code? Or is this kind of setting a precedent in that regard?
Senator Mark Johnson Senator Payton, I don't know the answer to that. Senator Irvin is nodding. She says that there is. And would you like to help me answer that, Senator?
Senator Missy Irvin Yes. Yes. Actually, I passed legislation as it relates to the manual to ensure that there are certain provisions listed in the manual for the training. So, yes, I've passed previous legislation before.
Senator John Payton Okay. Thank you, sir.
Senator Mark Johnson Thank you, Senator Payton.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Any other questions for Senator Johnson? Seeing no questions, anyone wish to speak against? Anyone wish to speak for? Senator, you're recognized to close.
Senator Mark Johnson Thank you, Madam President. I appreciate a good vote and I'm closed.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator has closed. Any objection to rolling the vote? Seeing no one, hearing no one, Madam Secretary, please roll the vote. [Vote] Any senator wish to change his or her vote? Seeing no one, please cast up the ballot. By a vote of 34 yeas, 0 nay, Senate Bill 78 passes. Please transmit to the House. Senate Bill 142.
SB 142: Requiring public schools to have a no cell phone policy for students [Passed]
Secretary Senate Bill 142 by Senator Dees to create the Bell to Bell No Cell Act and to amend requirements for public school discipline policies with regard to student use of personal electronic devices.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Dees, you're recognized.
Senator Tyler Dees Thank you, Governor. Members, It's a joy to bring this bill today. Senate Bill 142 is the Bell to Bell No Cell Act. If there's two big mistakes we've made, over protecting our children in the real world and under protecting our children online is definitely an issue. The great irony of social media is that the more you immerse yourself in it, the more lonely and depressed you become.
Gen Z became the first generation in history to go through puberty with a portal in their pockets that called them away from people nearby and into an alternate universe that was exciting, addictive, unstable and unsuitable for children and adolescents. Now, those are three quotes. Those are not my words. Those are quotes from Jonathan Haidt's book, Anxious Generation. I know all of us have received that book, and I know every governor in the country has received that book. And so it really highlights a main issue that we're seeing in our students.
The stats that we're starting to see across the country with rise in anxiety and depression and suicidal thoughts are all being stemmed back to upstream issues related to addiction to screens, to cell phone use, to social media exposure. And unfortunately, that's happening all the time in our schools and we can't stand for that.
We can't continue to harbor that and encourage it in our school systems. But there's been multiple studies done around the tests and experiments that we've unintentionally allowed through our school districts. And many organizations have started to see the stats and grab those. But I want to quote from some of the work that's been done from the Manhattan Institute related to these studies. It says smartphone use in schools can harm children in at least two major ways.
The first is distraction in the educational experience of students. And the second is impeding healthy childhood socialization. These two aspects of the in-person academic experience can be fundamental to children's development and to well functioning, well-adjusted adults. Public schools historically operate in loco parentis, meaning that when minor children are entrusted by parents to a school, the school has a duty to support the learning and safety of its students. But schools' ability to do so is impeded by smartphone use.
Data and anecdotal observations support these connotations. Research using granular data that tracked mobile phone notifications found that teens received 237 notifications a day on average, with about 25% of those notifications occurring during the school day. In another study of students, over 90% reported that they received text messages in class, with another 86% of students reporting that they sent text messages in class. Another study found that using Facebook and or texting while doing schoolwork can tax cognitive processing capacity that may preclude deeper learning.
Smartphone use and addiction has also been associated with poor sleep quality. And sleep quality has had a significant correlation with academic performance. This is just some of the studies and the research that's being done about this topic across the country. I think we can see more and more that the unintentional test that we're allowing to happen, the experiment we're allowing to happen with our students is a major issue.
And so that's what's led to, fortunately, our governor to launch a pilot program. In this last year, we had 76% of our school districts across the state voluntarily sign up to be a part of the governor's pilot program. Over 180 school districts. And that's starting to give us amazing results. Great success coming out of that program. We're seeing missed assignments go down. We're seeing student engagement go up. Teacher appreciation for the program. We're seeing attendance records go up, drug usage and disciplinary issues going down. All from results from the pilot program that launched this last year.
So it's from the statistics we're seeing, from the data we're seeing. And it's from the superintendents we're hearing from. And from the stats and data that we're hearing from the pilot program that led to today. It led to this bill and to the work of the past year to year and a half working on this bill.
And so Senate Bill 142 aims just to bring clarity and aims to help the issues that we just described right here. It is the Bell to Bell No Cell Act. And it simply states that from the start of the day to the end of the day that we will prohibit the possession or restrict possession of cell phone use for our students. What the bill also does is gives each individual school district the local control to outline their policy around the implementation of this. They can decide if it makes sense for them to have a pouch system or for a locker system or for cubbies.
Each school district will be able to apply what makes sense for them. It also allows them to to decide what's the student disciplinary policy around this so it gives back each school district the ability to influence this law. I also say that this bill aims to really do two simple things. The first is a distraction free environment, and this is relating to our academic standards or academic focus, making it easier for our kids to focus and learn in school.
And the second is to help with the adolescent mind, to help with the emotional and social intelligence, the relational skills, teaching them how to have eye contact when they talk to people, how to interact with other students. We believe these are vital, important skills that need to be learned and need to be harbored. So that's simply what the bill does. It's personal to me. I've got children of this age. And I encourage good questions and debate today. But I appreciate your time and stand ready for questions.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Thank you, Senator Dees. Questions for Senator Dees? I see Senator Caldwell and Senator Tucker. Senator Caldwell, you're recognized.
Senator Ronald Caldwell Senator Dees, you rattled off a lot of statistics a while ago and I couldn't follow all of them. But I don't see the correlation between cell phone use during the day and sleep habits at night. Then you come back and talk about athletics. You know, my granddaughters and grandson all play basketball and they lose more sleep from being tired or getting hurt. So how does cell phone use in the classroom affect sleep patterns at night?
Senator Tyler Dees Thank you for the question, Senator Caldwell. I think what we've seen is a increase in total screen usage. And a lot of these social media sites have been built predatorially to attack our students where they continue to build algorithms that they call doom scrolling that make it where they constantly feel like they're missing out. They constantly feel like that if they don't stay on top of the next message or the next notification that they're missing something that's going on. And so by reducing the amount of time that students are on cell phones, we know that that can have a relieve in the psychological nature of that.
Senator Ronald Caldwell Thank you, Madam President.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Tucker, you're recognized for a question.
Senator Clarke Tucker Thank you, Madam President. Senator Dees, this bill doesn't apply to private schools, correct?
Senator Tyler Dees That's correct.
Senator Clarke Tucker Why is that?
Senator Tyler Dees Thank you for bringing that up. So this bill is targeted to our public school districts because, frankly, that's our constitutional charge. Our charge is to create a fair and safe and adequate education for public schools, just like this bill doesn't apply to home schools. And there could be an argument made of any student who partakes or any school district or any private school or homeschool that takes public dollars, you may make that argument.
And that's a fair argument to make. I just don't think that's our place. I don't think it's our place. Just like when we passed the LEARNS Act, there were so many people that said, I'm afraid to engage as a private school student or as a homeschool student because I don't want strings attached. I believe by applying this to private schools and to homeschoolers, that would be strings attached that's not our jurisdiction.
Senator Clarke Tucker Okay. I had two follow ups. And you addressed one of them already, because I think every private school in the state will be accepting LEARNS dollars for virtually every student in the 25-26 school year. So thank you for addressing that. The other follow up is, and I appreciate the goals.
I have teenage kids, so I appreciate what you're doing. But everything that you articulated and the justification for what we're doing, the mental health damage, the concerns from psychiatrist and psychologist, to me, that applies to young people in Arkansas, whether they attend a traditional public school, an open enrollment charter school or a private school. Do you have a response to that?
Senator Tyler Dees Absolutely. It does. And I would encourage every parent, every student, every administrator, whether they're a public school district or whether a private school , to follow these principles. But I would also echo that I can't find a private school that doesn't follow something very similar to this today. I'm sure there are differences out there, but I can tell you every private school that I've talked to has a very similar policy on hand. But it comes back to what is in our jurisdiction and what is in our focus point. And I think we have clarity there.
Senator Clarke Tucker Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Tucker. I see Senator Hill, Senator King and then Senator Hammer. Senator Hill, you're recognized.
Senator Ricky Hill Thank you, Governor. Senator Dees, you alluded to a while ago that cell phones were the cause of kids not looking people in the eye, talking to them, kind of being distracted altogether. Now, you're going to blame it on cell phones. For the last five years, I've heard that Covid made kids to where they couldn't talk and do and kind of make them want to stay at home and be reclusive. But what is your response to that? Because as a Republican body, we've all said that.
Senator Tyler Dees Sure, there's multiple issues that impact our kids. Multiple issues, whether it's drug use, whether it's physical abuse, addictions of all kinds.
Senator Ricky Hill But the cell phones, you said, were going to take care of that, do away with that.
Senator Tyler Dees These all have an impact with our students. And if we're in charge of setting policies and creating environments that help our students, let's take away some of the issues that do impact our children negatively.
Senator Ricky Hill Follow up.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge You're recognized for follow up, Senator Hill.
Senator Ricky Hill Okay. Well, while we're doing this, I've always had the belief that if I'm going to ask someone else to do something, I need to do it myself. So we're going to ask the teachers to enforce a no cell phone policy with these kids. Are they going to have a no cell phone policy themselves? And if not, why not?
Senator Tyler Dees Well, what's great is when you look at this bill, and I encourage everyone to make sure they read the bill, it has local control all throughout it. And every school district has the ability to set local control policies for their teachers. And they have the ability to implement that. But I think to the nature and the heart of your question, the important thing to describe is the adolescent mind here. Our teachers don't have adolescent minds. They're adults and the way that cell phones impact adults is different from the way that impacts children. And so this bill is approaching the focus of trying to help children's minds.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator King, you're recognized for a question, followed by Senator Hammer and then Senator Clark.
Senator Bryan King Okay. Thank you. First off, I want to apologize to you. I couldn't be there yesterday. I always quote Mickey Mantle. If I knew I'd live this long, I'd have took better care of myself. And as you know, maybe hopefully not with you, injuries catch up with you. So I had an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon I couldn't miss.
So we talked a little bit, and Senator Tucker asked a question about the private school. The next thing is, and I wasn't there yesterday, explain these lock boxes or whatever they are that these cell phones or what's going to be out there to when the child gets there at school that, I guess, this cell phone is going to go in some type of device or storage. And then who is going to pay for that?
Senator Tyler Dees Sure. So what's great, again, is that this bill allows school districts to decide that for themselves. Some schools already have pouches, some schools have lockers, some have cubbies. And they all have the option to decide what works best for them. And so they want to budget for different options, that's great.
Senator Bryan King So some of the schools that are not-- I hate using the term wealthier-- don't have as much money or cash flow that maybe some schools do, it's going to actually obviously take money for something new. It's got to come from something else. It could be used for something else. So this is not going to be the state is going to provide all the funding for this. It's going to be whatever the school decides. They're going to have to be responsible for putting it in their budget. And possibly more likely, it's going to crimp something else.
Senator Tyler Dees Definitely could. We all make prioritization on our budgets just like a school district would. And if things are so tight, they're welcome to say off and away, they're welcome to say they're not allowed to bring them. But I can tell you it's more important for students to be protected than to worry about this example.
Senator Bryan King And I'm actually sympathetic to this. I mean, I've had parents that 20 years ago would not have been for this. But as I say, you have to deal with the reality in front of you. And a lot of things that you're talking about, there's a lot of people today that's contacted me that says, Hey, Bryan, I wouldn't have felt this way about something, but dealing with the reality in front of me, the things you listed and concern is why they've changed their mind.
But there's no state general revenue budget or anything the state's going to provide 2.8 million to cover the cost of all these. It's going to be each individual school district is going to have to comply is your answer. So that's first.
The second part is, we've had situations recently in my district where a teacher was fired after a rant about the elections. And the reason they were fired, and they were out of line. I would say that if it was Donald Trump or Kamala Harris, either one. In that situation that I know from the news reports, and that came about would never happen if the student didn't have the ability to record them.
And you have maybe some cases, and I understand that wherever you point the needle on this, there's good and bad consequences. And you've got to do that. I understand. But what if you have situations of maybe possibly sexual allegations either falsely against a teacher or maybe correctly against a teacher or coach that record? That student having a recording device could actually vindicate or convict somebody that's doing something improperly.
So is there flexibility that a school board or situation, have some allegations or something come up that they could change the policy to meet that and be able some way for some student to be able to record a situation that could be inappropriate.
Senator Tyler Dees My response to that would be that I would encourage every family, every student, every family to make their education decisions based on the trust they have in that school district or that school. And so, fortunately, if you remember the LEARNS Act, it gave empowerment to parents to decide where to send their kids to what schools.
And if you do not trust the safety of your child to go to a school district that you feel like you need to record the teacher, I would encourage you to find a different school to go to. But I don't think the answer is to make sure that we have recording devices that distract and hamper the adolescent mind. I think the answer is you send your kids to a better school district.
Senator Bryan King I understand. Like I said, it's one of these things is there's consequences either way. And I don't think your intentions is bad in this and everything. I mean, that's not always the case down here with me. But I do think that, like I said, the problem, the reality today, we have to deal with.
So fights, bullying, those type things you see, and I hate these videos, these students getting in fights. But once again, I mean, no one knows. It could happen at any school, any time. Recording those fights sometimes can show who the actual aggressor was, not always, because videos can be edited or not taken in time. So if you have a school that--
Senator Tyler Dees Is this a question? Is there a question? I'm ready for a question about it.
Senator Bryan King Well, and I'm saying if you have a situation where there's potential fights or something, you still just do not have flexibility. Or it's just your answer is to be if you have that suspected or something, just pull your kid out and go to another school.
Senator Tyler Dees That's always an option. And I also say the data is also showing that fights and bullying situations are already reduced because of this type of policy.
Senator Bryan King And that's true, too. That is a very good point. I agree with that. So lastly, for the students out there, are we punishing the student that, as a parent told me, that they're not having a problem with their kid doing it. Why should they have to comply with this when they're actually being good. And I understand, once again, it's about the direction. There's going to be consequences. I'm not saying it in a bad term or attacking. I'm just saying, what do you say to them?
Senator Tyler Dees Well, I reference you back to what I said in my opening. This applies to two areas of focus. We're trying to help the education environment, but we're also trying to help the social and emotional intelligence and the addiction free environment as well. So it's not just about making sure that they're focused on their academics, but also that there will be well-adjusted adults in the future as well.
Senator Bryan King Okay. And then just because I wasn't there yesterday, I apologize I couldn't be there. So if they're on field trips, basketball games, and as students do, they text their parents when they're 30 or 45 minutes out, how does that apply?
Senator Tyler Dees Well, after school hours, this is not talk about. So you're allowed to have, if you're going to your work, you've got work arrangements or parents need to pick you up. These are after school hours. This does not prohibit cell phone use.
Senator Bryan King Thanks for answering my question. I understand why you're doing it. I don't think you're a bad person for doing it. I think this is actually a good thing to try and address. It's just a tough situation.
Senator Tyler Dees I think you're great, too, Senator King.
Senator Bryan King Hang around a while, and you won't think that.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Hammer is recognized for a question, followed by Senator Clark, Dotson, Hill and Senator Mark Johnson. Senator Hammer.
Senator Kim Hammer Thank you, Madam Governor. Senator, just a couple quick quotes. I want to make sure clarification. In looking at the bill, you actually have in the bill a provision in the event of an emergency situation during school hours. Am I interpreting that correctly?
Senator Tyler Dees Yes, sir.
Senator Kim Hammer Okay. And then also on page three, you have an exemption clause where a school can, in their policy that they have to submit to the state Board of Education, if I remember right, if they want to make an exemption, there is a process whereby they can submit that to get that approved. Am I reading that right?
Senator Tyler Dees You're exactly right. And that was very intentional. I appreciate the question because we wanted to make sure that we put the appropriate exceptions. We've got students that need health tracking, so we have medical documented medical needs where personal electronic devices are needed.
And so we made sure there's exceptions for those. We also have exceptions for 504 plans and IEP plans. Also exceptions, as you said, Senator Hammer, for emergencies in the rarity, in the unfortunate situations of fires or tornadoes or, God forbid, an active shooter. We have exceptions for those devices to be used.
Senator Kim Hammer Then the last question is, I appreciate the pilot program. I think the pilot program is great. But in reality, there's already a lot of school districts that have this in place without us having to do this legislation. Am I correct on that?
Senator Tyler Dees Yes, sir.
Senator Kim Hammer So is this more for the schools that would maybe like it, but for whatever reasons, they need the coverage in order to be able to enforce?
Senator Tyler Dees Yes, sir. What we've heard from administrators and even from teachers is that teachers have said, we really like this, but we don't want to be the bad guys. Please don't make us be the bad guys in our classroom. We're asking for help. We're actually begging for help. We've had administrators ask for us to look into this. We have teachers down the hall that do something different than a teacher on the other side of the hall.
And so kids are in limbo. They don't know if this is a real rule or not because this teacher allows it, that teacher doesn't, even inside of the same school district. What this does is brings clarity and confidence for all school districts to be able to have a level playing playing field for the conversation that fits best for their district with the confidence of this bill.
Senator Kim Hammer Well, and I would say this. That really ought to be a local school issue that handles that. And I understand the inconsistency. But as you said that, something I hadn't thought about until you just said that is a student transfers from one school district to the other. At least you'll know the consistency of the policy because of a statewide application.
Senator Tyler Dees Absolutely. Yes, sir. I appreciate the questions. Appreciate a good vote.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge The senator has left the well. Anyone wish to speak against? Senator Hickey, you're recognized to speak against.
Senator Jimmy Hickey Jr. Members, I just want to come down here to make sure that everybody understands where I'm at. I served on the school board before coming down here. I'm 100% for this policy, but not this structure. And I know some others have already alluded to this. These private schools that are receiving these voucher funds, they should agree. And I'll say should agree to the same requirements if they want to continue receiving those type funds.
Public schools in southwest Arkansas and I know some of your other districts across the state are a huge part of the community. So what I don't want is some other deterrent against these public schools that can be construed as making students go to another private school. So, again, I'm for the policy, but the structure of this I just cannot vote for. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Anyone wish to speak for? Senator Dismang, you're recognized to speak for the bill?
Senator Jonathan Dismang I hadn't really planned on speaking for the bill. And I hate to kind of contradict. I think some of the points that have been made in regards to private versus public, I hate that we feel like we need to go down that road repeatedly. Number one, the LEARNS Act funds the student, not the school. You can go through the program and that's what you're going to see.
Number two, my question to you, did the state of Arkansas tell the private schools that we were going to make up the difference for the $50,000 minimum pay? No. Do we help supplement their transportation cost? No. Do we help give them free breakfast, as I hope you're going to vote on tomorrow? No. There is a laundry list of things that we do for our public schools that we do not provide for our private schools.
And so if we want to keep talking about parity and if they're going to take the LEARNS money, then they need to do A, B, C, D and E. Now, the one thing I'm confident that I can tell you is they were probably ahead of most of our public schools in implementing this very policy. I'm aware that they were. It isn't some leg up that Harding Academy doesn't have a cell phone policy, and they're going to get a bunch of kids from Searcy because they're going to implement one at the Searcy Public Schools. It's just not the case.
In fact, when this conversation started, I believe I had to go back and look and see the old emails. It was one of the first things we did. And for every one else that has a kid in this room that's in a private school, I'm going to guess they implemented similar policies. Again, I understand the argument. I think it falls flat. There is a significant difference between the two. We fund students, not the schools. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Recognized to speak against. Anyone wish to speak against? Seeing no one, Senator Clark, you're recognized to speak for.
Senator Alan Clark Thank you, Madam Chair. Governor. First of all, amen to Senator Dismang. Senator Dees, I appreciate you bringing this bill. I appreciate the governor's backing. It's something that's needed to be done for a long time. The only thing that disappoints me about it Senator Dees is that my name's not on it. No, I would have to oppose it and work against it. There's one thing to oppose and vote no. And it's another thing to work against if it had had private schools in it.
And since we've broached the subject, the thing that we have always had to be careful with school choice is when the funding follows the child that we do not make private schools government schools. We are increasing regulation here. I'm one of those people who don't like more regulation, but I understand that regulation is necessary. And when you don't like regulation but understand regulation is necessary, you have to decide at what point what's important enough. This is important enough.
The studies out there of what's happening to our young people, increased suicide rates. I could go on and on and on. And a lot of it has been tied to cell phone and social media. Now, we can't do anything about it outside school. We shouldn't. But we can inside the school. And we should.
Especially because if I've got my phone, and I'm over 60 year old adult, I have it. If I'm in church, I will be distracted. If I'm here on the Senate floor, I will be distracted. If I'm in a committee meeting, I will be distracted. Because Senator Penzo, I will be looking at it. And I'm not 14. So there is good science behind this. It needs to be done. But we need to be very careful what we decide needs to be policy for public school and whether we think it's necessary then to reach out to the private sector because people who choose to have their kids at a private school have decided they want something different from the state.
And they have never been forced to be in a private school ever. So the choice that they make there, as Senator Dismang brought out very well, most of them have already made this decision. There is no need for us to tell them to, but there is no need for us to anyway, because that's the very reason that kids are in private school is because somebody thinks that they're doing a better job, that they're doing something different, and they don't want state rules imposed upon them.
Now, if you are one of those who think if you take state money, you've got to do everything the state does, then stand up and say, we are against the LEARNS bill. We don't want money going into private schools. We don't want money going to home schoolers. And I understand that. But we should not make, because the next thing is homeschool will have to do the same thing. And who's going to regulate that?
Because the very people who don't want school choice and don't want the money to follow the student make the same arguments over and over and over. And I am not talking about any of you. I'm talking about, well, not any of you with an R by your name. Excuse me for speaking plainly. But for those who truly oppose school choice, their argument is always, Well, if you take money, you ought to have to do what the state does.
No, a lot of the good changes that we have made in public schools over the last 20 years came directly from homeschoolers, came directly from private school, because we were doing something different in those laboratories and from charter schools. So that's the one thing that would cause me to vote against this bill, but I am very much for it. I am so glad that we brought it.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Anyone wish to speak against? Speak for? Senator Irvin, you're recognized to speak for.
Senator Missy Irvin Thank you, Madam President. And I think everybody's mind is made up. I just wanted to take the opportunity to speak on this bill for my own personal reasons. When I think about these kids and the state of where they are in their development as a person, as a child, as a growing adolescent going into adulthood, maybe some get there faster than others. There's a tremendous pressure already from your peers that are just sitting in the desk next to you when you have a cell phone.
The whole world then becomes sitting next to you. And there's already a tremendous amount of pressure for these kids based on just who's in their classroom. I went to all girls high school and all women's college, and it was great because I got to focus on my education. We weren't there trying to impress the boys. We were actually there trying to learn. And it was a great opportunity for us just to focus on your education. And there's nothing wrong with that.
And I think what this bill does is it tries to speak to the idea that while a child is sitting in a classroom, they should be focused on math. They should be focused on reading, on literature, on history, on learning art, on learning craft, whatever it is. But let's close out the distractions of the world just for that time. Close the distractions from that world so that that little girl doesn't feel like she has to keep up with the little girl that's on Instagram and the social media influencers all the time.
And I can tell you there are adults that have had serious problems and issues where they've chosen to just remove themselves from social media because they then don't feel like they're worthy. Their self-confidence is beginning to become completely obliterated. Because now you're not just keeping up with the Joneses next door in your neighborhood or the student next to you. It's the whole entire world you're having to keep up with. And that's overwhelming, especially for kids. But even for adults, it's overwhelming. Poor choices occur because of those influences. There's no doubt about it.
I'm a big fan of uniforms in school. Why? Because then everybody's not distracted about what you're wearing or that you have more money to buy what you're wearing versus me. Uniforms just take care of that. It removes the distraction. So I really think that there have been policies put in place by schools and institutions of education along these lines for years. It's just new technology changing of times. But I think it really is really important for us not to just pass this bill today, but to send a message.
Please, if you're a parent, listen, listen. You don't have to have contact with your child 24/7 every single second of the day. That's not healthy for you as a parent. It's not healthy for your kid either. And I just have to say one last thing on the emergency part. And I've talked to Senator Dees about this.
If you're in an emergency, schools, please listen to this and understand this. If there is an active shooter coming into your school way and that's running down the hallway, you do not want your student to be glued with their head down looking at their cell phone. They will be a sitting target. Their eyes need to be up. They need to be alert and they need to be following the instructions of the adults.
The same thing is true with a fire. The same thing is true with the tornado. The same thing is true with evacuating a campus for whatever purpose. So I actually don't like that part of your bill. And I told you that. Because we have some delusion that we have to have contact with our kids 24 7.
In an emergency, we can't trust anybody else. Well, guess what? Mom's not going to be able to tell my child how to get be safe. I'm actually going to make my child less safe if she's talking to me on the phone or he's talking to me on the phone. That child needs to be listening to the teacher, the administrator, the school resource officer.
So that's actually one section of the bill I don't like. But I'm voting for it anyway. I just hope that we will use this opportunity to speak today to send the message to parents and to schools and to kids, just to put it down, remove the distraction and focus on your education. And I hope you will vote for the bill. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Any senator wish to speak against? Any senator wish to speak for? Senator Stubblefield, you're recognized to speak for.
Senator Gary Stubblefield Yeah. I'll keep this real short. You know, to me, this is one of the best things we've done for our kids since we took the paddle away from the principal. But the only problem with this is from 3:00 to 10:00 at night, they're going to have these phones back. So they're going to go without them during school, but they're going to have them back another so many hours after that. But along with this, along with some discipline back at our schools, we could turn these schools around. But I am thankful for Senator Dees, and I'm thankful for this bill. It's a good bill.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Anyone else wish to speak against or for the bill? Seeing no one else, Senator Dees, you're recognized to close.
Senator Tyler Dees Thank you, Madam Governor. Members, I'll be quick. This is not an anti tech bill. All approved technology in classrooms provided by schools is still allowed and even encouraged in a lot of settings. This is just to bring clarity about personal electronic devices. And so I'll end with this. I think all of us remember that our time in school, if you had an embarrassing moment in the cafeteria where you spilled your lunch tray, it was embarrassing for about a day, about a day.
But now the environment, unfortunately, you're now embarrassed, maybe for your entire life because it's captured and made fun of and shared multiple times. We're trying to protect the adolescent mind of how that hampers our kids. Those examples and countless others. It's a simple bill. It's the right direction.
We have a constitutional charge. We were sent here to do hard things so that our Kids in the future can do hard things. And so their kids can do hard things, things that are difficult, things that are hard to do. And we can do that today. We could set the tone and set the standards. So please, I ask for a good vote. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge The senator has closed. I will ask you all to speak loudly and clearly. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. [Vote] Any senators who did not vote, who wish to vote or change their vote? I see Senator Bryant, yes. Any other senators on this side? Any senators on this side? Senator Leding, present. Senator Penzo, present. Senator King, not voting. Senator Hill, yes. Present. Senator Hill, present. Is that correct? Please check the board. Anyone else? Seeing no others, please cast up the ballot. By a vote of 28 yea, one nay, one not voting, and 4 present, Senate Bill 142 passes. Please transmit to the House.
[Vote on SB 142: No: Hickey. Not voting: King. Present: Hill, Leding, Penzo, Tucker]
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senate Bill 164.
Secretary Senate Bill 164 by Senator Dotson to authorize the public school to employ or accept as a volunteer a chaplain.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Dotson, you're recognized.
Senator Jim Dotson Thank you, Madam Governor. Members, this bill does one simple thing. It allows for school chaplains who are in our schools-- it puts into code the requirement that anyone who hires or has a volunteer school chaplain, they have to pass criminal records checks, child maltreatment, central registry check. And there has to be a certain criteria for them to be eligible to be hired or be volunteer chaplains in the schools. But authorizes it specifically. More than happy to answer any questions.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Questions for Senator Dodson? I see Senator Tucker, followed by Senator Davis and Senator King. Senator Tucker.
Senator Clarke Tucker Thank you, Madam President. Senator, are you concerned about constitutional challenges with this piece of legislation?
Senator Jim Dotson No.
Senator Clarke Tucker There are really two that I'm concerned about. One is the establishment clause in the First Amendment, and then the other is an equal protection clause. I think you obviously know what I mean by the establishment clause concern. As far as equal protection goes, I'm concerned that we might be subjecting schools to an equal protection clause if they decline a chaplain for any reason that is not specifically listed in the bill. They select one chaplain of one religion, turn down another chaplain of another religion. Do you have any concern about that?
Senator Jim Dotson No, I'm not concerned at all about it.
Senator Clarke Tucker Why not?
Senator Jim Dotson Well, chaplains are throughout our society right now. We have them in the military. They're not disallowed from being in schools currently. And so it's already an established thing. We have chaplains throughout our society. This just sets forth the criteria by which public schools and open enrollment charter schools will have to make sure the chaplains that come in have their religious endorsement from some type of religious organization.
If you look in the bill, it provides the definition for what a religious organization is. And it says, not only someone who has truly and sincerely held religious beliefs or creeds, but also is someone whose practices and rituals are not construed as illegal or contrary to clearly defined public policy. They also have to possess ecclesial authority to grant and withdraw initial and subsequent ecclesiastical endorsement from a chaplain. So it just lays out very clearly in the law what the religious organization is that's endorsing. We don't have some fly by night organization that was created with web.com yesterday and it puts into code who has the actual authority to grant that endorsement.
Senator Clarke Tucker So are the reasons in the bill that you just listed, are those the only reasons that a school could turn down a chaplain?
Senator Jim Dotson Well, the schools themselves-- let me see if I can find it here quickly. They will determine their own hiring practices. I underlined it so it was really clear and easy for me to find, and now I can't find it. On page one, line 28, it says that the schools shall determine the selection criteria for the school chaplains. So each school has autonomy in order to be able to to determine their own hiring practices and procedures.
Senator Clarke Tucker I think that opens us up. But we have a different position, and that's okay. The other question, as you mentioned, that we have chaplains in other aspects of American society, which of course is true. In prison, for example, we have them in state prison. A chaplain has to have a bachelor's degree before they can minister to the inmates. In federal prison, it's a master's degree. How did you determine what criteria and qualifications a chaplain needed before they could go into our schools?
Senator Jim Dotson I spent a lot of time on the definition, making sure it was as open as possible, but also was as close to possible. I actually used the Department of the Military's definition. I weeded from that largely to draft this language.
Senator Clarke Tucker Which Department of the Military is that? Federal?
Senator Jim Dotson The United States Department of the Military.
Senator Clarke Tucker That's what I was wondering. Okay. Thank you, Senator.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Davis, you're recognized for questions,, followed by Senator King. I see Senator Murdock and Senator Hammer.
Senator Breanne Davis Thank you, Madam President. I think you partially answered my question, but I was wondering if there was anything currently prohibiting this in law or schools cannot already do this. And if not, then what is the purpose of this specifically?
Senator Jim Dotson There's nothing prohibiting them from doing it that I'm aware of or that I can find. So the purpose is express permission to ensure that school districts are aware that they can do this. But then also secondarily, as I started off in my opening to make sure that if they are going through, chaplains that are going into our schools will be in a position somewhat of authority influencing not only students but staff and parents in that local district, have passed criminal background checks. They've also passed the Child Maltreatment Central registry checks. And so we're ensuring that the people that are in front of some of the most vulnerable folks in our society are not predators.
Senator Breanne Davis Okay. So even if this bill does not pass, then chaplains are still allowed to volunteer or be employed by a school district as the school district deems fit?
Senator Jim Dotson Correct.
Senator Breanne Davis Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator King, you're recognized for a question.
Senator Bryan King So I want to apologize to you. I was not in Education yesterday because of a doctor's appointment. IThat's the reason I'm asking the question now. So I served with Dan Greenberg. I don't know that you did. He was Jewish. I mean, can this be a chaplain, a rabbi? I mean, are we excluding rabbis?
Senator Jim Dotson No. A religious organization, as you see, is defined on page three of the bill. So if it was a synagogue or something like that and they endorse chaplains, obviously, I think they'd have to have the term chaplain in their endorsement, which I'm not entirely sure if a rabbi is considered a chaplain or not. That's a question I hadn't contemplated.
Senator Bryan King Well, I mean, I've been a protector of Israel and I don't know why we do that and then exclude rabbis.
Senator Jim Dotson As am I.
Senator Bryan King I know. And you are. I'm not attacking you on that. I'm just saying if there is a rabbi, like my church, and then when I was involved with church youth groups, we were, See you at the Pole. We did a lot of things with schools. I'm not familiar of any school in my six counties that I cover that there's an exclusion of some type of interaction. I mean, how does this change that? And I apologize, like I say, I wasn't there yesterday. How does it change anything that I'm seeing that I'm not hearing a problem of now that somebody is not being excluded? How does that change that now with this bill?
Senator Jim Dotson It shouldn't change anything for folks that are already doing this. But for areas where there might be local folks that say, hey, we don't have the clear permission, that they might be advised by an attorney asking a question, is this constitutional or is it not? There will be statutory law on the books saying here we are. And then, of course, once this is passed, if it is challenged, our attorney general will take it and defend the law on the books.
Senator Bryan King I know the Constitutional challenge. I've been part of that either way. I'm not someone that needs to hang it up, even if I agree with it, just because there's this threat of a constitutional challenge. Because that's our process that we have to learn. So we asked about the LEARNS. If a school is getting LEARNS money, do they have to abide by this same thing? I mean, most of them probably are if I'm guessing. But will they have to abide or is this another different rule?
Senator Jim Dotson So if you look on page three, line two of the bill, it defines public school. And this specifically is in relation to a school operated by a public school district or an open enrollment public charter school. This does not deal directly with private schools, which I'm sure they already have their own.
Senator Bryan King Harding Academy, all that. I don't think we have to worry about that unless Senator Dismang has changed things up there and advocating for something different. But okay, so let's say under the LEARNS thing, on LEARNS, we know some of the Turkish people, I mean, some of us have went to Turkey on exchanges. I don't know that they are. They have a school. If they get LEARNS, they can still have their religious freedom to do what they want under that with their thing. I appreciate the answers.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Murdock, you're recognized. We have a long list. Hammer, Dismang, Stone, I believe, Leding and Clark and Scott.
Senator Reginald Murdock Thank you. So akin to what Senator Davis mentioned and maybe some others, I just want to make sure I'm clear. If a school district is already doing this in their way, this don't apply to that. They are kind of grandfathered in. They don't have to acquiesce to what we're doing here today. They can continue as they are if they're okay.
Senator Jim Dotson That would be correct, other than the fact that if they did have chaplains that they were already employing or volunteering, they would need to pass background checks and comply with the statute as far as making sure that they passed criminal records checks and child maltreatment central registry checks.
Senator Reginald Murdock You said no. Now you're saying yes.
Senator Jim Dotson So, yes, it would effect--
Senator Reginald Murdock So if the school district is already under the guise of DESE, to have anyone on their campus, they have to do those minimal things of background checks and those minimum safety things. Beyond that, beyond that, are they okay if they're already doing it?
Senator Jim Dotson If they've already got a policy in place and they're already doing it right, this would just put it in statutory requirements that those folks that are coming in, they have to have those types of background checks. I'm assuming that most schools are probably doing that already.
Senator Reginald Murdock Sure.
Senator Jim Dotson However, this would put it into statute requiring it.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Hammer you're recognized for a question.
Senator Kim Hammer Thank you, Madam Governor. A couple of quick questions. Number one, the bill starts off by saying a public school may employ or accept. So the fact that the language is permissive, if a school district just doesn't want to deal with it at all, they just say too controversial, we're not sure if we're going to have to let one denomination over the other. They can just say no.
Senator Jim Dotson Correct. This is not a mandate requiring anyone to hire anybody specifically. It does allow for them to do it and makes it explicit within the law for anyone having a question that they can hire. But it doesn't force them to do that.
Senator Kim Hammer Okay. But if they choose to do so, do you think that this allows a statewide standard as far as what a school district would have to comply with if they wanted to do this, that it would remove maybe the conflict between two districts that are side by side that are operating differently? What's the intent as far as what you hope to achieve? If a school district could do it now, what's the hope that you intend to achieve by doing this?
Senator Jim Dotson So if you look down at the very end of the bill on page three, where it defines school chaplain, it would mean that a school chaplain is a member of the clergy who was credentialed by a religious organization to, A, function in a pluralistic environment, and, B, directly or indirectly support the free exercise of religion by all individuals in schools.
So it sets that minimum criteria that says, okay, if you're going to be a school chaplain, you've got to support everybody in this pluralistic environment, but you also have to be credentialed by a religious organization. And if you look just above that, and we already discussed it, the religious organization is defined as an entity that actually exists, already exists and ad has the authority to credential chaplains or remove the credentialing of the chaplains if not fulfilling the ecclesial charge of that particular religious organization.
So it sets those minimum criteria. But a school district could have hiring policies that are more stringent than this. It just allows them the ability to have the express authority to hire, without question.
Senator Kim Hammer Okay. And I know there's a long list so last question. We're saying that they don't have to submit the criteria to the state for approval. But the school district has to have those credentials in order to be able to allow that chaplain to function within their district. That's correct, right?
Senator Jim Dotson Yes.
Senator Kim Hammer So we're going to put it on the local school district then to be responsible for determining who fits the bill and who doesn't. And I'm trying to resolve that in my mind. I know the history of the bill. As I was reading, I'm trying to resolve that in my mind.
Senator Jim Dotson I mean, I would imagine, as you probably can, that a local school district is probably more in line with knowing who the local folks are that might fit the criteria of a chaplain when someone's coming in either as a volunteer or if they are going to actually pay them and employ them in the district.
You're probably not going to have somebody coming in from out of state that no one in town knows. So the superintendent and school board locally would be the ones making that determination of what the criteria are for hiring, but then also ultimately allowing them to be in the schools and setting that policy.
Senator Kim Hammer All right. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Dismang, you're recognized for a question.
Senator Jonathan Dismang To be clear, do we have any public schools with a chaplain in the state?
Senator Jim Dotson I can't say for 100% certain. I think there are, but I don't know for certain.
Senator Jonathan Dismang Okay. I'd like to know. If we do, I would like for us to find out where they are. And then I think I caught it in passing in your answer. But the chaplain would be for everyone, students included?
Senator Jim Dotson Students, staff and parents of enrolled students.
Senator Jonathan Dismang Okay. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Stone.
Senator Matt Stone Yes. Senator Dotson, just for clarification, I think you just touched on it just a little bit. I said it says a public school may employ or accept a volunteer on the school as a chaplain. So you're talking about bringing chaplains to the school and maybe putting them on the payroll?
Senator Jonathan Dismang Yeah. If they choose to do so. They're not required to. But yes, if they choose to employ a chaplain, they would have that ability to do so.
Senator Matt Stone And Madam President, if I may, I'd like to ask a follow up question. Is there a school right now that prohibits a pastor or a chaplain or a preacher from coming onto their campus right now?
Senator Jonathan Dismang I don't know of one specifically.
Senator Matt Stone So are we fixing a problem that doesn't exist?
Senator Jonathan Dismang Well, we're giving express permission to make sure that no one questions whether or not they have statutory authority to do it.
Senator Matt Stone Okay. Thank you.
Senator Jim Dotson Thank you, Madam Chair.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge The senator has left the well. Does anyone wish to speak against? Senator Dismang, you're recognized to speak against.
Senator Jonathan Dismang Thank you. I generally understand, I think, what we're trying to do here. This is my concern. Senator Hester, I think he's in room, is a great Baptist. I'm Church of Christ. We see things a little differently. In an adult context, if he'd said that this is for the teachers, adults, people that had a firm commitment in their feelings one way or the other or were able to make decisions on their own for themselves completely, then that's one thing. That's not what we're talking about.
We're talking about the mentoring of children through a religious lens, which I would probably prefer that to be left up to me or my church or the people that I want involved in that conversation. Again, I don't think this is something honestly we probably have occurring at any public school. I think it opens up the doors to a much bigger conversation that we need to have, and that's perfectly fine. But again, if we're talking about allowing this to occur with students, then that's a whole different ballgame. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Dismang. Anyone else wish to speak against? Speak for? Senator Payton.
Senator John Payton I'm the perfect candidate because I'm speaking on.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Speaking on the bill.
Senator John Payton I have questions and I hope that the sponsor will address these questions in his closing remarks. But number one, there towards the end of the bill where it says that the chaplain has to be credentialed, I don't know about your neighborhoods, but in my county, we have a lot of independent churches that are not part of a worldwide statewide organization.
And I have questions as to whether or not those pastors who are well established in the community for many years and have great congregations, whether or not they would even qualify because they are not credentialed by a religious network.
And then the other thing that I have serious concerns about that I hope you'll address is the question on immunity. There is a level of immunity given there towards the last two paragraphs of the second page, and it sets a very high standard. I can't remember and quote the words, but willingly, maliciously. There's three words. And it doesn't say 'or'. It's 'and'. All three of those thresholds have to be met to break the immunity. So if you could speak to that, I'd appreciate it.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Thank you, Senator Payton. Senator Payton spoke on the bill. Does anyone wish to speak for? Senator Mark Johnson, you're recognized to speak for?
Senator Mark Johnson Thank you, Madam President. Seems like this is the week of disclosures. Full disclosure, my wife and I, our marriage was solemnized in the United States Capitol by the chaplain of the United States House of Representatives. That's just full disclosure. We have chaplains at so many different levels. Military has been mentioned.
Many of you may not know, there was a time-- I remember it; Ann might even remember it-- we had chaplain of the Arkansas Senate. The one I remember, Senator Hammer, was Senator Corbett Mask from Benton. You may remember him. He was a chaplain of the Senate many years ago when I was a page. So chaplains are nothing new. And the military has them.
The United States Congress has them. If you've never seen a movie called A Man called Peter, it's about Peter Marshall, who was the chaplain of the United States Senate and absolutely an extraordinary individual. The First Amendment, remember, is about the people. It's not about the church. It's about the people. I appreciated Senator Dismang's comments earlier about the LEARNS Act is about the kids. It's not about schools. The chaplain is to serve. And our society, our Western civilization, believes that there is some good in that.
There are people that have questions about the details of this. And I will certainly say to my friend, Senator Dotson, maybe there's something to some of these. He might want to do some cleanup stuff. But conceptually, the First Amendment is not an attack here. And I've always stood up from people that say that the establishment clause is about creating a state religion.
The establishment clause is to stop what they had in England, that you had a Church of England and that was the only church you could have. And this certainly doesn't do this. And it would even go beyond, I would think, in some cases could go beyond even Christian religions. If a community had a lot of students of another faith, then a chaplain properly vetted could serve them. I think it's a good bill.
And I'm a believer in religious freedom. I'm working on another bill for religious freedom, not because I don't think we have enough laws on it. I think we have them, but we probably need to remind people of the codification of that and what the First Amendment really means. So I'd appreciate a positive vote on this bill. Thank you, Madam President.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Thank you, Senator Johnson. Anyone wish to speak against? Senator Leding, you are recognized to speak against the bill.
Senator Greg Leding Thank you, Madam President. Colleagues, I did plan to vote no today. I did not plan to come down and speak. But like some others, I had some questions. I do commend Senator Dotson for taking as many questions as he did, but I hope maybe he can address the ones I have in his closing. I do understand the need that students might want to have someone to talk to.
In the elementary and junior high and high school I went to, we had counselors who worked for the school. They were there at the school for students to talk to. I just wonder if trained mental health professionals wouldn't be more appropriate for a public school setting. And I also know that in other states that have considered similar legislation, there have been a little bit more transparency and parental consent requirements that parents must be notified.
But that also the school district websites would be required to post a list of approved chaplains. So I'm just wondering if that's something that is included in this piece of legislation. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Anyone wish to speak for? Senator Clark, you're recognized to speak for the bill.
Senator Alan Clark I'm really speaking on. I probably would have spoke for, but I have questions. This is the second bill today I had questions on that I really needed to get answered. I think the employment side can create some problems because if a local school is employing someone and they turn down someone because they're Missionary Baptist or they turn them down because they're Catholic or they turn them down because they're Jewish, the army doesn't do that.
And I think on religious grounds, I think that you've got a real big problem. From a voluntary basis, I love it. Because I think if an Assembly of God, Missionary Baptist, Nazarene pastor or even a lay preacher wants to volunteer to be a chaplain, this allows it. And if a Catholic priest wants to a volunteer, if a Jewish rabbi wants to volunteer, they can.
And the idea of having a spiritual advisor, if somebody chooses to go to them, we're not talking about proselytizing. That's not what a chaplain does. Versus a secular, I think is a great idea. Because there are things as a counselor you can't advise, you can't say, even though you think you might ought to. And so having a spiritual advisor there available, I think would be a great idea.
And I don't think there's anything in this bill that hinders Catholic priests, a Jewish rabbi and a Lutheran, Nazarene, Missionary Baptist, all volunteering. So that I think is great. On the employment side, I think it may need a little bit more fleshing out. I really want to vote for it, but I couldn't ask my questions.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Anyone wish to speak for since Senator Clark spoke on the bill? Anyone else wish to speak for? Anyone else wish to speak against? Senator Dotson, you're free to close.
Senator Jim Dotson Thank you, Madam Chair. And for those that I didn't get to your questions, I apologize. I didn't see anybody standing up when I stepped out of the well, and I didn't remember the list of names you read off before. So it was not intentional to step out and not take your questions. Senator Payton, I think part of your question was addressed. I talked to you a little bit offline. Just wanted to put it there that with regards to religious organization, an individual church would be considered a religious organization.
If they are a 501c3 as defined on page three, lines five through nine of the bill talking about individuals as churches, integrated auxiliary of a church, or convention, or an association of churches. Tried to make that as expansive as possible, but that would allow for a religious organization as individual, as a church, if they were the ones credentialing the chaplain.
As far as the immunity is concerned, if they are doing something maliciously, willfully and deliberately that's intended to cause harm or arrest, they do not have immunity. So in that section of the bill, it's the school chaplain only has the immunity if they're in the course of their job, what they're regularly doing. But if they're intentionally trying to cause harm or harass or intimidate individuals seeking support services or programs from the school chaplain, they would not have that immunity. So hopefully that makes that clear.
Sorry if I didn't address everybody else's questions. I thought I wrote them down. But the main thing in here, chaplains-- and then as far as rabbis are concerned, I'm going to try to look into that further. If this passes out today, I will ensure before it passes into law that we do allow for the broadest definition of the word chaplain to include rabbis in that. Just in closing on the bill, chaplains are specifically trained in high stress situations to help individuals with challenging issues that are facing them in our students.
And schools today are increasingly facing higher and higher stress situations where ultimately they need that sort of listening ear. They need that sort of person who is trained in addressing not only the mental things, but the whole person, the soul of the person and making sure that they are getting that spiritual guidance as well. With regards to questions of life and in certain cases, if they're maybe getting bullied or if they're hearing about things on the news or if maybe a teacher has a loved one that-- I know I heard of a situation just last week where a community member passed away at the same time as another kid in school, I think, committed suicide.
And so kids are facing stressful situations and questions about life. And that is the purpose for allowing chaplains within our schools in those high stress situations to ensure that they have access. And not just students, but also staff, which are helping with our students, but they're also dealing with those high stress situations as well. So with that, I'll conclude and ask for a good vote.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge The senator has closed. Madam Secretary, please call the roll. [Vote] Are there any senators who did not vote or who wish to change your vote? I see Senator Clark, yea. Senator Crowell, present. Senator Love, present. Any other senators on this side? Senator Hill, present. Any other senators? Please check the board. Senator Hickey, yes. Any other senators? Seeing no others, please cast up the ballot. By a vote of 13 yea, 11 nay, 4 not voting, and 6 present, Senate Bill 164 fails.
[Vote on SB 164: No: Davis, Dismang, English, Flippo, Flowers, Gilmore, Irvin, Leding, Scott, Stone, Tucker. Not voting: Caldwell, B. Johnson, Rice, Stubblefield. Present: Crowell, Hammer, Hill, Love, Payton, Petty]
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senator Dotson, you're recognized.
Senator Jim Dotson I'd like to make a motion to expunge the vote by which Senate Bill 164 failed.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Motion to expunge the vote by which Senate Bill 164 failed. All those in favor please signify by saying aye. Any opposed. Ayes have it. Motion carries. House Bill 1046.
Secretary House Bill 1046 by Representative Pilkington and Senator Davis to establish a blue envelope program. Senator Davis, you're recognized.
Senator Breanne Davis Thank you, Madam President. The purpose of this bill is to provide individuals with autism a standardized way to share their information with police officers during a traffic stop. So the goal is to reduce misunderstandings, increase safety and foster better interactions. So this will simply let a person with autism, after they go through the proper process to get a blue envelope, to have it in their car with them.
So if they're pulled over on a traffic stop, they can hand it to the officer rather than trying to be stressed out and communicate in a high stress situation. So all the information will be there. The officer can see it. And hopefully this will improve safety and better outcomes in these traffic stops. I'm happy to answer any questions.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Questions for Senator Davis? Senator Hill, you're recognized.
Senator Ricky Hill After testimony yesterday, there was very, very compelling testimony by the gentleman that presented this with the representative. My question to you, is there any way that DFA could mark that on their driver's license instead of them having to keep up with a package or anything like that to make it a little more easy where as soon as they hand it to them, they notice it?
Senator Breanne Davis I'm sure we could run legislation that does that, but that would simply be a mark and not all of the information that maybe says, I am nonverbal or I communicate in this way, like some of the explanation of the way that they best interact and communicate, I think is the information that's needed for those officers to be able to have a good interaction. And all of that would not be able to be on a driver's license. Thank you.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Other questions? Senator King. No question, Senator King. Senator Mark Johnson.
Senator Mark Johnson Thank you, Madam President. Senator Davis, I was in committee when the gentleman that senator he was talking about spoke. I was not aware of this situation until this bill came up. And thank you for helping Representative Pilkington with this. It appears that while this is not a universal thing, I hope maybe it will be a kind of a model legislation.
But instead of having some notation on the license, the fact that the envelope is blue will hopefully become some kind of national standard where if someone is on the autism spectrum, to avoid any question about it, they hand their credentials, their driver's license, their insurance and their registration to an officer. And he sees that, he or she sees the blue envelope that would identify what that's about. Would you agree with that?
Senator Breanne Davis Yeah, I think that would be great, Senator Johnson.
Senator Mark Johnson Thank you. And thank you for the bill. Thank you, Madam President.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Other questions? Senator Hammer, you're recognized for a question.
Senator Kim Hammer Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I was looking at the bill. Essential documents, including without limitation, driver's license, vehicle registration and contact card. But what's not listed in here is the insurance card. And I know we've got the insurance verification where they can check online. I remember that.
But yet at the same time, I also know that sometimes officers will ask for that. Is there a reason that the insurance information was not included? Or the way the language is written, would it preclude? I'm trying to figure out where the insurance documentation would fit in the way this language is written.
Senator Breanne Davis No, it will not preclude it. They can include that in there. It also includes communication guidelines on the exterior that are tailored to the individual. So there's additional information that can be in there, anything that they would need in a traffic stop. And then with the way that they best communicate on the outside of that envelope.
Senator Kim Hammer Okay. Maybe what they could do is when DFA designs it, they could put a checklist on the front. And that could be included. A checklist box where it would say insurance card so the individual would know that's something they may want to put on there just to avoid any. Because to me, that seems to be one of the points of contention is, do you have insurance or do you not? So just friendly suggestions. Thank you for the bill.
Senator Breanne Davis I think that's a great idea. Thank you, Senator Hammer.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Any other questions? Senator Payton, you're recognized for questions.
Senator John Payton Thank you, Madam President. Senator Davis, in the bill it says that the Department of Finance shall develop and make available the specially designed blue envelope. Then it continues in the next paragraph and describes that the blue envelope developed under this subsection shall include the communication guidelines.
Are those guidelines specific for the individual or are they something that's going to be uniform? Because it would appear to me that we're compelling the DFA to create the envelope. Is DFA also going to be responsible for what's printed on the outside of the envelope? Who's going to get that printing done on that side of the envelope that describes what you want to describe?
Senator Breanne Davis So that's specific to the person. I mean, autism, as you know, looks a lot of different ways. And so it's specific to the person with autism so that officers know how to interact with them specifically. So they'll be the ones that put that information on there. But they have to go down and do it at their local office. And so I think that's where that would happen.
Senator John Payton So DFA is going to have to print on the envelope those instructions?
Senator Breanne Davis Well, I don't know that it has to be printed, but it'll be written or printed on the envelope.
Senator John Payton But that'll be up to the DMV agent?
Senator Breanne Davis I don't think that, specifically. I mean, where I think that happens is down at the local office with the person that says, This is the way that I communicate. And it's tailored to that person. I mean, the idea is that it's for each individual person so that if they're pulled over they have a successful traffic stop.
Senator John Payton And I totally agree. I'm not trying to to trick you or anything, but the way the language of the bill reads, DFA is going to provide the envelope. And the envelope is going to have this information. It would appear that DFA is going to be responsible for putting that information on the exterior of the envelope, and that information is not uniform. So somebody at DFA is at the local office or whatever is going to be responsible for putting that information on the envelope.
Senator Breanne Davis Yes. When the person goes in to their local office to request a blue envelope. So they have to go request it and be approved for it, and that's where they'll put that information on the envelope.
Senator John Payton Okay. Thank you.
Senator Bart Hester Senator Gilmore, please refrain from using a cell phone in the chambers. Are there any other questions? Senator King, you're recognized.
Senator Bryan King Okay. I'm sorry. I had a question and I didn't. And you may have addressed this. So you have a special needs situation. I have a special needs situation with my niece and I'm close to them. But autism is something. My niece has cerebral palsy related. But so in these autistic cases, some of them are drivers, they have driver's licenses, but yet have this? Or was that clear or covered?
Senator Breanne Davis Will you ask that again? Some of them have driver's licenses?
Senator Bryan King So some of these with this blue envelope program, are they legal drivers? In some cases not. Not all cases, but maybe some cases, right?
Senator Breanne Davis Legal drivers?
Senator Bryan King Have a legal driver's license and yet have this blue envelope?
Senator Breanne Davis Yes, that would be all of them.
Senator Bryan King Yeah. Okay. I didn't know.
Senator Breanne Davis Okay. Sorry. I didn't know if I was answering.
Senator Bryan King I'm sorry. So would it be easier, at this point in time-- I mean, I'm going to vote for this-- but would it be easier if they had some type of stamp on their driver's license that they had this that would be easier to carry? Was that covered earlier?
Senator Breanne Davis Yes, Senator Hill asked that question. I'm sure we could run legislation to do that. I mean, my point to him was simply that that would be a mark versus written information on how to communicate with that person specifically. And that's just something you can't fit all on a driver's license.
Senator Bryan King I'm sorry. I did not catch that. I was not distracted by my phone. I was just distracted. So thank you.
Senator Bart Hester Any other questions? Would anyone like to speak against the bill? For the bill? Senator Davis, you're recognized to close for the bill.
Senator Breanne Davis Closed for the bill. Thank you.
Senator Bart Hester Any objection to rolling the vote? Seeing none. Madam Secretary, please roll the vote. [Vote] Would any member like to vote that has not or change their vote? Senator Rice, not voting. Any other member? Seeing none, Madam Secretary, please cast up the ballot. By a vote of 33 yeas, and 1 not voting, the bill is passed. Please return to the House. House Bill 1135.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge House Bill 1135 by Representative Achor and Senator Boyd to allow the issuance of a digitized identification card, to amend the law concerning the fee for issuance of a digitized driver's license or digitized identification card and declare an emergency.
Senator Bart Hester Senator Boyd, you're recognized to present House Bill 1135.
Senator Justin Boyd Thank you, Mr. President. So what this bill does is in 2023, we passed legislation that facilitated the ability to have a digitized driver's license, a mobile driver's license. What this does is it makes two additional changes to that. One, importantly, it allows for the state to issue a digitized state identification card. Number two, when we passed the legislation last year, it mandated a $10 fee.
What this does is it actually says the state does not have to charge $10. It could charge no more. But the charge could also be zero. And what I would anticipate is the charge will be zero, at least in the beginning. But it is not mandating a new fee. It's actually saying the fee can be less than what we said it had to be last time.
Senator Bart Hester Are there any questions for Senator Boyd? Seeing none, are there any members who would like to speak against the bill? For the bill? Senator Boyd, would you like to close for the bill?
Senator Justin Boyd Thank you, Mr. President. I'd appreciate a good vote. Thank you.
Senator Bart Hester Any objection to rolling the vote? Seeing none, Madam Secretary, please roll the vote. [Vote] Are there members who would like to change their vote? Senior Madam Secretary, please cast up the ballot. By a vote of 34 yeas, the bill has passed. Return to the House. Emergency clause adopted. Are there items at the desk?
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge [City County L, Senate Bill 182, do pass].
Senator Bart Hester Calendar.
[Engrossed Bills, Senate Bill 183, 59]
Senator Bart Hester Education.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge Senate Bill 188 by Senator Tucker to amend Arkansas law concerning initiative, petitions and referendum petitions and require public posting of statewide initiative petitions or referendum petitions. Senate Bill 188.
Senator Bart Hester State Agencies.
Secretary Senate Bill 189 by Senator Clark to authorize Ivermectin for human use, to be sold without a prescription or consultation with a health care professional. Senate Bill 189.
Senator Bart Hester Public Health.
Lt. Gov. Leslie Rutledge House Bill 1007 by Representative Puryear to regulate liability for shooting sports events and to provide immunity to certain individuals with respect to shooting sports events. House Bill 1007.
Senator Bart Hester Judiciary.
House Bill 1067 by Representative Gramlich and Senator Hill concerning firearm holder agreements and provide civil immunity to a federal firearms licensee who agrees to hold a firearm for an individual. House Bill 1067.
Senator Bart Hester City, County Local. Are there any announcements? [Announcements] Madam Secretary.
Secretary [Enrolled Bills, Senate Bill 18]
Senator Bart Hester Are there any announcements? Seeing none, the Senate is adjourned until 1:30 tomorrow, subject to clearing the desk.
