ALC Game and Fish, State Police: Jan. 21, 2026

Senator Missy Irvin Good morning, everybody. If everybody will take their seats, we’ll go ahead and get started. Alright, thank y’all all for being here. Appreciate everybody coming out in the weather. I have no comments, but let’s just go ahead and get started. 

Representative Dwight Tosh Thank you, Madam Chair. It’s good to see everyone here today. And like Chair said, thanks for being here. I guess our first item of business today is going to be the discussion with the State Police involvement with federal immigration laws. So Colonel Hagar, would you and your staff please come to the table and you’ll be recognized. Colonel, if you would, if you and the members of your staff would identify yourself for the committee, and then we’ll proceed. 

Mike Hagar Good morning, Mr. Chair, Madam Chair, members. I’m Colonel Mike Hagar, Secretary of the Department of Public Safety and Director of State Police. 

Jason Aaron Jason Aaron, Lieutenant Colonel with the Arkansas State Police over field operations. 

Mike Kennedy Mike Kennedy, Lieutenant Colonel, State Police, Director of Administrative Operations. 

Arkansas State Police cooperation with ICE

Representative Dwight Tosh Thank all of you for being here. By the way, it’s good to see each one of you again. And thanks for your service. We have you on the agenda here, Colonel, to speak in regards to the federal immigration laws and, I guess, how it’s affecting the Arkansas State Police and how you are moving forward in regards to that. So with that said, you’ve got the floor. 

Mike Hagar So there’s several aspects of this. And out of respect for the committee’s time, not really sure specifically what you guys would like to know about. So with respect to your time, I’ll just open it up for questions. 

Senator Missy Irvin I’ll go ahead. I think, as we see things unfold across the nation, I think what I’m interested in is seeing how y’all are interacting with our federal partnerships. What is the role of State Police with that, plus your local sheriff, local police, and, I think, what those look like and what the federal government is asking of us to do? 

And just very succinctly, what are those roles, and how that is being communicated, and where is that happening? Perhaps, if you can speak to that, I think that’s, for me, I just want to make sure that we have full cooperation and that we have the ability to execute what the President is trying to do. 

State Police role and training

Mike Hagar So just the kind of 30,000 foot overview, we have a standing MOU with every federal agency, not just DHS or ICE. Basically a lot of federal and state laws run parallel with one another. So it’s just a cooperation that has been in place for decades with State Police and our federal partners to where we will assist them, will enforce laws, will assist in operations with them as requested. 

Specific to immigration enforcement, the administration asked local law enforcement, local being state police or sheriff’s departments to engage in 287(g), a task force model in support of that. The State Police has agreed to do that. We started that process back in late summer, early fall. And completing the training that is required to do that, as of today, we have all but 12 members of enforcement that have completed that training. Those 12 are people that are on FMLA, military deployments, things like that. 

So all of our rank and file do now have the 287(g) authority, that we’ve completed the necessary training to do so, and we are now authorized in that capacity. Having said that, of course, immigration is a complex issue. We’re not an immigration enforcement agency, so we are in an assisting role only on that. 

We’ve currently not had any planned operations, anything like that. It basically just gives us the authority that in just daily operations, if we come into contact with somebody on some other type of criminal offense, that they are illegal status, that we can make proper notifications to ICE and let them do further vetting for their process. 

Senator Missy Irvin Okay, could you describe 287(g) for those of us who are not familiar with this? 

Mike Hagar Yes, ma’am. So 287(g) has been around for years. And I couldn’t even guess or speculate when that started. Originally, the 287(g) program was more tailored towards detention facilities. We had a few sheriff’s departments in the state– of course, State Police does not operate any detention facilities, so it was specific to them. 

This administration expanded that program to more of boots on the ground law enforcement personnel. And so in the simplest of terms, it just gives us the authority that, once reasonable suspicion or probable cause is established to believe that a person is of illegal status, it gives us authority to detain them, transport them, and turn them over to ICE and for further vetting. 

Senator Missy Irvin So the State Police has gone through this training, all but 12. What about local law enforcement, local counties, local police departments? Do they also then enter or is this just a state-federal relationship? Or can the 287(g) also be training that are local law enforcement?

Mike Hagar Yes, ma’am. I don’t know the number off the top of my head, but there is a website that you can look at through DHS that you could see all the agencies that are currently enrolled in the program. And I know it’s multiple. I would say the majority of law enforcement agencies in Arkansas have completed that training or are enrolled in the program. 

Senator Missy Irvin Okay, that’s Department of Homeland Security, DHS? 

Mike Hagar Yes, ma’am. 

Senator Missy Irvin Okay, just making sure that we had that on record. Okay. All right, we have some questions. And I appreciate the information.

Representative Dwight Tosh Before we get started, let me follow up on one thing the Colonel said. State Police is defined by law. And you touched on this. And I think I just wanted to make sure it’s highlighted and people understand the State Police is an assisting agency by law. 

So basically you’re assisting any federal, city, municipality. That’s the role of the State Police is to assist any other agency that needs State Police assistance. And basically what you’re doing is you’re fulfilling that mission that is defined by law. Would that be a fair statement? 

Mike Hagar Yes, sir. Completely accurate. That’s correct. 

Representative Dwight Tosh Okay, thank you. 

Senator Missy Irvin Okay, Senator Love, you’re recognized for a question. 

Senator Fred Love Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Colonel Hagar, and you all for being here. Let me start with this question. Because I hear a lot of different things in regards to the stops. 

And so just as a pretense of your protocol, how do we determine the status when you make a traffic stop or where you make a stop, how do you determine the state of somebody’s immigration status? Is there a protocol that outlines that? 

Mike Hagar Yes, sir. We currently do not have the ability to determine that status. So if we make contact with a violator on a traffic stop, the first thing we’re going to do if they have no identification, we’re going to run that person by name, date of birth, or any type of identifier that they give to us. 

And we’re looking to see if they have a driver’s license, first and foremost, then if they have any active warrants or any kind of court action against them. So in this situation, a lot of times, just generically, if you encounter a 30-year-old subject that has no identification in the system, it’s an indicator that that person may be here on illegal status. Your average adult, of course, in Arkansas is going to have some type of either identification card or driver’s license issued. 

Senator Fred Love Okay, so if they have a driver’s license or whatever, then…? 

Mike Hagar Yes, sir. 

Senator Fred Love Okay. Alright. Secondly let me ask, because I think I asked you this before, are we keeping any records of how many, I guess, immigration type stops that we are doing with the State Police that, I guess, result in us turning somebody over to ICE or turn it over to DHS? 

48 detained since September

Mike Hagar Yes, sir. Just to clarify, of course, we’re not making immigration stops. But if we encounter a violator as a violation of law, and it’s determined that that person may possibly be of illegal status, there’s discretion to be used there. And we’ve asked our officers to use that discretion. 

But to answer your first question about tracking that number, as of right now, we started keeping records in September, I believe, once we completed this training or at least we had a large number that were close to completing this training. And since September, we have detained 48. 

Senator Fred Love 48? Okay. 

Mike Hagar Yes, sir. And those vary from– we looked over today to see. There’s not a lot of detailed information that we have on that. But those encounters and detainments vary from, as a result of pursuits, criminal arrests, narcotics arrests, and things like that. So there’s going to be some other type of violation of the law before we’ll detain. 

Senator Fred Love Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you, madam chair. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. Senator Rice, you’re recognized. 

Senator Terry Rice Thank you, madam chair. Good morning, Colonel Hagar. 

Mike Hagar Good morning sir. 

Senator Terry Rice I appreciate you being here. And I try to say that with everybody that responds to an invitation because we’ve had at least one that didn’t show up that was invited and takes taxpayer money, but didn’t come to another committee. So I do appreciate you being here. When I saw this on the agenda, and as you know, I have great confidence in you and your organization. But nothing is perfect. So I always will want to put things out there that could happen and maybe have happened to keep in mind. And I know y’all do that anyway. 

But when I see the involvement with federal immigration, and I support what ICE is doing in the need to get criminals out of this country. And that’s mostly what they’re doing. There are people that are here illegally, undocumented, that will get caught up in that. My concern is, I keep looking for a way– and I’m not hearing it– I keep looking for a way that law enforcement can differentiate some. 

I had a lady that’s not in my district but married somebody I went to school with, was a US born citizen. She was brought here at 4 years old and is now– that’s 35 years ago– so she’s 39. Has teenagers who are US citizens. And he told me this number of months ago, back when it was warm, said they were afraid to get out and go to a swimming hole or something because this stuff had started in Arkansas.And I understand that. And I said, I don’t have an answer for you. 

I hope at some point we get enough criminals out of here, they’ll find a way that there’s some common sense for long-term things. And again, that’s not the policy we’re here today for, but that’s something that y’all may come and encounter with. And I understand you’ve got processes you have to go. 

Brian Malinowski killing by ATF

But my other concern is, and you’re well familiar with it, is ATF and what I consider the assassination of Brian Malinowski. When, not ATF, but Arkansas law enforcement who had contracted services with ATF while still taking state taxpayer money for their other job felt obligated to do what ATF, under the Biden administration, wanted done, is to show that our interpretation of gun laws is different than what y’all say is written. So they kicked down a man’s door in the dark at 6 o’clock in the morning. 

He did what I’d do with people coming in in black suits. He fired a shot and they shot and killed him. I don’t want Arkansas State Police to be put in that kind of thing because you have an agreement with a federal agency, ICE or anybody else, that y’all can’t use good sense and say, we’re not going to go down that road. 

We could have picked this guy up at any stage of his day. But instead, we went in in the dark and kicked down his door and killed him right in front of his wife. I don’t want that to happen ever again. And nobody was ever held responsible for it. And I appreciate y’all not being involved in that. 

What I’m looking for, is there anything out of what you’ve stated so far– and you hadn’t given us much of a statement– is there anything outside of your daily work that y’all are doing currently in coordination with federal agencies, Homeland Security, ICE, as far as going out and just seeking anything more than people with criminal charges? Or do you expect that to happen? 

When and why they detain

Mike Hagar No, sir. And thank you for that question. We are not engaged in any type of operation like that. To your point, we’ve made it very clear to our troopers, whether it’s the 287(g) program and assisting with ICE or if it’s assisting with any of our federal partners, at the end of the day, they work for us. And we will make a final determination on what we engage in and operations that we engage and or not. 

So specifically to the immigration enforcement issue, again, that’s not our primary task. And it is a complex issue, and we understand that. So I’ve used the analogy that 56 in a 55 is a violation of 27-51-201. So is 86 in a 55. But there’s a whole lot of difference in between those two. And when you look at the immigration issue in Arkansas, we’re blessed that we don’t have large numbers of people coming to Arkansas, illegal immigrants for the purpose of criminal enterprise. Now that’s not to suggest that we don’t have some. 

This past Sunday we had one that is a member of TDA that was engaged in activity back and forth between Chicago. And we received information about that, and our trooper set up and was able to take him into custody. That’s an 86 in a 55. The immigrant that was brought here as a child, as a toddler, and has been here for 2025 years, product of our school systems and has been a productive member of society, not had any interaction with law enforcement, that’s 56 in a 55. 

And we’ve expressed the difference to our troopers. We’ve explained to them that we expect them to use good judgment and common sense, discretion that they have under law. And we’ll trust that they’re going to take that responsibility seriously. As far as any type of operation specific to ICE, since it is a sensitive issue and it is a complicated issue, they do not have the authority to engage in those operations without running that up the chain of command. And I can tell you the three people sitting in this table will be directly involved with the go ahead of whether or not that operation– or at least, we will participate in that operation. 

Senator Terry Rice Appreciate that. And I had confidence in that, but I think it helps to let people know you’re going to do your job. But there is that difference in 56 and 86. And I appreciate that you’re looking at it that way. 

Local agency training and participation

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. Senator Bryant, I’ve got you next. Quick question. With the training that’s involved with this for local– because I’m trying to find where on their website. I can’t find it. Like a list of organizations and departments within the state of Arkansas. I would love, if y’all have that, if y’all could get that to us. 

That would be really helpful just because– is there a cost to the training? Is there any incentive to do the training for like local? Because I know that training is an issue sometimes, that it’s costly for our local law enforcement officers, like county level or city level. I didn’t know if there was like any cost to that or barriers in place. I just wanted to– 

Mike Hagar There’s been no direct financial impacts for the training. The way that the training was set up, they had 60 days to complete the training once they logged on and began the training. So there was concern on the front end that we may have to put some troopers on overtime status to complete the training. We did not have to do that. We asked them to find that time throughout their day in between calls for service to complete the training. So the only expense would be abstract in that they were–

Senator Missy Irvin Gotcha, okay. 

Mike Hagar So, there’s not been an actual fiscal impact to the agency. As far as anything that we may receive from the federal government, as you guys know very well, that’s part of the Big Beautiful Bill. I guess that there was a funding mechanism to go back to law enforcement on a local level to reimburse for any cost that we may incur. But that’s complicated and they’re still working through that process. 

We’ve heard different things. And that’s not a shot at DHS. It’s just complicated. So we’ve been told that we might have funding available that will come to the State Police and other local agencies to offset any expenses that we may incur in the process of assisting them. But we’ve not seen that yet. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. Senator Bryant. 

Senator Joshua Bryant Thank you, madam chair. And thank you, gentlemen, for being here. I think that was going to be my line of questioning was, are we keeping track of those expenses? If out of the 48 that have been apprehended throughout the state this year, as you deploy those into the county system to be held for ICE and ICE comes and gets them, takes them to a local facility, are those counties able to keep track of their hours and time and have the resources to be able to seek reimbursement? Are they choosing not to seek reimbursement? I guess I’m just curious with budget coming up what those numbers might look like. 

Mike Hagar Again, it’s not had an impact on our agency as far as operations are concerned. As far as the county jails are concerned, honestly, I don’t know the answer to that more than just generically. I know the federal government pays our county jail to house federal prisoners or federal detainees. And they are on this as well. But as far is that rate of reimbursement, I’m not sure. But I do know that the county jails keep that information separate to where they can basically bill the federal government accordingly. 

Senator Joshua Bryant The State Police, as far as the training and the hours spent working federal issues, are you keeping track of those hours?

Mike Hagar Yes, sir. If it got to the point where that was, again, an approved operation that we’re going to be involved in, we would absolutely track that. To this point, we know the hours that they’ve spent in training to complete this. But again, that was absorbed throughout their daily enforcement day. So that’s not been tracked to the hour. But we certainly had a mechanism in place to track it if we had to put troopers on some type of overtime status to complete that training. But we were fortunate that we did not. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. Representative Ladyman. 

Representative Jack Ladyman Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all for being here. Colonel, I don’t want to cover ground we’ve already talked about. But you mentioned, I think it’s 287(g), the training. That was back in 2002, 2003. There was some issues going on up in Northwest Arkansas. And I think that legislation was passed around that time. 

And Steve Womack was actually the mayor of Rogers, and I was the mayor of Elkins. And we talked about as a region certifying some of our officers so that they could detain illegal people who had entered the country illegally and turn them over to ICE. Now, ICE was always active and still is. A lot of people don’t know this, but they’re always active in areas. 

But Steve actually trained a number of his officers, and I think we trained one of ours, because we didn’t want people who might be gang members– and if there’s an indication that they might be, well, then you want to follow up on that. I know that’s what you guys do. But if someone’s been here 30 years and has no legal– nobody is going to bother them. 

There were very few cities back then, and it was primarily cities and not county sheriffs that did this. There was only a few. And I know you mentioned that there’s a webpage. But in your opinion, are there a lot? I mean, is there 30% of the cities or 50? Or do you have any idea the magnitude of those officers that might be trained? 

Mike Hagar I know the list is extensive of the agencies that are participating. But I’ll be honest with you, sir, I would be afraid to even guess at that, as far as like the total number. Colleagues may have a better idea than I do. But I know it’s a significant number. But as far as percentage of law enforcement agencies in Arkansas, I don’t even really have a guess. 

Representative Jack Ladyman Well, I know, I mean, that’s up to the local cities and counties that do that. And you all are just there to assist them. One other question, do you know, is there any– ICE is always active. I know that. But are there any areas of the state where there’s a focus? Like, we had Memphis and some of the bigger cities, but do we have any cities or areas or regions where ICE is more active or focused on? And are there any issues as far as pushback in those areas? 

Mike Hagar As far as I know, pushback, no sir, not that I’ve heard of, or at least very minimal. So the federal government does in a lot of ways what we do. They assign the resources in the places where it’s more of an issue. In Arkansas, the resources that have been dedicated to Arkansas are very minimal, because I don’t think that we have the problem here that we do in a lot of population hubs around the country. And while that number is growing, it’s still very small at this time. 

I can tell you I had a conversation with the US Attorney yesterday in the Eastern District to kind of pick his brain on this topic before I testified today. And right now, it has basically taken the bandwidth of the resources assigned here to simply go from county to county and pick up illegal immigrants that have come into contact with law enforcement for criminal matters. So they are stretched pretty thin in just doing that. 

90% of detainees have criminal violations

So, for instance, I think we have the capacity to transport much less than 100. I’ve heard a couple of different numbers, but I’ve heard 24 and I’ve heard 48. I’m not sure which, and that number may grow. But I can tell after talking to the US Attorney yesterday, we had both been told the statistic that about 90% of the people that are detained right now are detained as a result of DWI violations and domestic violence. 

So as those people are arrested and taken to jail and determined to be on illegal status, ICE is contacted. And their officers are spending the majority of their time literally just going from county to county to pick up those people that have been detained, bring them to Little Rock for holding until they can be transported to a detention facility outside of Arkansas. 

So the overwhelming majority of the enforcement efforts are in that capacity right now. It’s very minimal as far as the number of resources that have been dedicated here in any type of enforcement operations. 

Representative Jack Ladyman Well, I know up in northeast around Jonesboro, we get a lot of people out of Memphis. And Memphis was a focus point. And as everybody knows, crime is high there. And I’m not aware of any issues up there that I’ve heard about. So it sounds like it’s pretty much business as usual for ICE in Arkansas. Is that correct? 

Mike Hagar That’s been our experience. Yes, sir. 

Representative Dwight Tosh Representative Ladyman, you brought up a good point. And we will try to get them before this committee, maybe during the next meeting. That’s CLEST, Commission on Law Enforcement Standards and Training. They are tasked with a responsibility here in the state of Arkansas to keep up with all the training for every officer, keep that in a file. 

And so they should be able to answer those questions, if that’s something you’d like for us to move forward with. I think that was really a good point you brought up. So we’ll try to do that before our next committee meeting, hopefully in February. Maybe that’ll help. 

Senator Missy Irvin Representative Richardson. 

Representative Jay Richardson Thank you, Madam Chair. Over here to your left. Good morning. So I had to step out for a second, so I don’t know if you covered this or not. But I’d be interested in knowing, you guys, since you have now began the ability to check to see if somebody’s illegal or not, are you tracking how diverse the people are in what you’re pulling over or identifying as illegals, like from brown, black, white, a breakdown of that? Are you guys doing that? Is it possible to do that? 

Mike Hagar Specifically, I don’t know that we are tracking that. But again, just to clarify, we’re not making traffic stops on the pretense of any suspicion based on someone’s appearance. The people that we’ve come into contact with and have been detained have been stopped for some type of violation of law or they’ve been contacted by investigators for some type of a violation of the law. 

We do not have the ability– and I think that’s something that is a misperception by the public that we can pull someone over and somehow run identifiers and find out what their legal status is, their immigration status. We don’t have that ability. So all we can do is when we detain someone, we simply transport them. 

If we are not able to identify them and it is believed that they have no identification because they are of illegal status, then it’s simply a notification made to ICE for further vetting. They have the ability to do that. They can use fingerprint scanners, facial ID, things like that to where if that person has been contacted by immigration, either on the border or at some other location, they can put that person through their system. And they can identify that person or what their status is. But we do not have that ability. 

Representative Jay Richardson So when somebody breaks the law, you pull them over for speeding or whatever, and they’re unable to identify, if they don’t have any license on them or anything, those are people that you’re contacting or sending to ICE because they can’t prove if they’re here or not. My question is, is it everybody that does that? 

Mike Hagar I’m sorry? 

Representative Jay Richardson Any individual that you pull over, if I’m speeding down the street and I don’t have my ID, are you turning me over to ICE? 

Mike Hagar No, sir. So it’s not necessarily that we’re turning them over to ICE. If that person is detained for some type of criminal violation, and that violation very well could be just the fact that– it is an adult that is not in the system. They’re detained, and then the detention facility can notify ICE to further vet that person to see if they can identify who they are or confirm who they are. But we are not making any type of like– 

Representative Jay Richardson I got you, I got you. You answered. Thank you. Thank you very much. 

Mike Hagar Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. And lastly, Senator Hammer. 

Senator Kim Hammer Thank you, madam chair. Just for clarification, the ones that you’ve picked up so far, would you classify those as violent offenders? Or how would you categorize the ones that you have picked up so far? 

Mike Hagar So I’ve not gone through and looked. The information is kind of vague. We just see the reason for the contact. And that’s either a traffic violation or a call for service. Of course, in rural areas we have troopers that answer calls for service like domestic violence issues and things like that. 

I know from just a quick glance of looking over, I would say it’s a mix of being contacted for a traffic violation, everything from that to a person that was arrested for fleeing, domestic violence, DWI, criminal infractions that led to that person being detained, not the fact that they were just merely suspected of being on illegal status. 

Senator Kim Hammer Okay, but you have a directive from ICE or from the federal authorities as to the reason why you’re picking them up. It’s not like you’re just grabbing them or doing anything without any authority. And the range of who it is that you may be picking up may be something we might consider minor or to something major. It’s not any one– it is kind of across the board. 

Mike Hagar Yes, sir. It’s across the board. 

Example of Arkansas detainee

Mike Kennedy Senator, let me give you a real quick example. We have over 600 Arkansas state troopers, and we’ve picked up 48 since September. So it’s not very often that’s happening. One of those 48 was one of my stops. So let me give you a quick example firsthand. I can tell you firsthand. 

I stopped a vehicle at Geyer Springs Road for not having any vehicle license on it. The driver had had two DWI’s in two years and not done a thing to take care of either one of those DWI, as far as pay his fines, get his interlock devices. I called ICE and they beat the wrecker there and they got him out of our country before he winds up killing somebody on one of our streets. 

Senator Kim Hammer Yeah, and I don’t have a problem with that. That’s what I was trying to– that’s what I wanted to get to the conclusion of, that the folks that you’re picking up, some might be minor, but yet some are going to be the kind of folks you don’t want living next door or living in your neighborhood. 

Mike Kennedy Or driving down your roads, exactly. 

Senator Kim Hammer All right, thank you, sir. 

Senator Missy Irvin To me, that’s the most helpful, being able to give an example. And that’s what I’m concerned with, I know that everybody that I represent is concerned with, is that we don’t want violent criminals on our streets, no matter what their status is. I mean, it doesn’t matter if they’re a citizen or not a citizen. 

And I for one, if they are not a citizen, then I do believe they should be deported back to their country and let their country deal with that and deal with paying for all of the adjudication that is involved with that. Because we have enough already on our hands to deal with just our own citizens. So I think that’s really helpful information, and I just appreciate it. 

And that’s why,  for me, I want and I hope that there are, A, no barriers financially or by time that any local law enforcement agency has in order to participate fully and wholeheartedly with the federal government and with what the President of the United States is putting forward in his agenda. Because I agree we’ve got to address this head on. And that may not be a lot, but for me, one person is a lot. You know, knowing what we’ve known and what the impact could be. 

Just like you stated, that they could kill somebody. You know, the next DUI could end up in a fatality, in a multiple fatality and even their own fatality. So we should be acting as aggressively as we possibly can to make sure everybody’s trained, everybody’s participating, everybody’s on the same page to execute the president’s agenda. 

So that’s why I wanted this on the agenda today, because I think it’s important that we discuss it, highlight it, are very clear about the information that’s out there. Because clearly, things that are being misconstrued on a national media level. And we just need to make sure that that’s not happening here in the state of Arkansas. 

And so that’s the intention and the reason why we have this on the agenda. Really appreciate the information you gave and your testimony and the questions from the members of the committee. Thank you. We’ll move on to the next. We have no more questions, so thank you gentlemen for being here. 

Representative Dwight Tosh Thank y’all for being here. 

Senator Missy Irvin And with that, we’ll move on to the next item of the agenda. We have Mr. Schoenrock, who’s the director of Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. He’s got three items on the agenda, and I think these are issues, as he’s coming forward, that are important to have status. The role of this committee, let me just state this, the role of this committee is to provide oversight. 

But it’s also critical that we are an educational committee and making sure that we’re fully utilizing the talents and the expertise that we have at the state level and how they operate in the state. And for me, Game and Fish there’s so much room. And I’m so appreciative of the director’s role in this and reaching out to other states, number one, and finding out what’s happening with other states, how it’s affecting our state. 

And then the recognition that hunting is a huge impact to our tourism economy. And being able to really take full advantage of that is really important. And I think some of these issues can directly impact our tourism and our visitation, as we are kind of a hunting destination for the country and being to compete on that level. 

We want to be the national championship of hunting destinations in the country. And so a lot that’s happening in other states could impact that. So with that, I just want to turn it over to you. And if you’ll state your name for the record, you’re recognized to proceed. 

Doug Schoenrock Yes, ma’am. My name is Doug Schoenrock. I’m the director of the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. 

Senator Missy Irvin We’ll first start with the status of the water pumps at the WMAs. 

Arkansas Game and Fish

Water Pump status at WMAs

Doug Schoenrock We currently manage a bunch of water on different WMAs, of course. We have 108 different, what we call moist soil units. 63 of those are flooded that require rainfall. 45 of them are flooded by artificial means, which indicates pumps. At this point in time, 90 to 100% of every one of those is– I’m sorry, all 108 are 90 to 100% flooded at this point in time of the year. 

We also manage 43 green tree reservoirs. Green tree reservoirs are flooded timber, historic Arkansas, pristine areas to hunt. 39 of the green tree reservoirs that we have opened to hunting on our wildlife management areas require rainfall or river flow. Four have pumps. Those remain in status right now of 0 to 100% flooded. Some are not. Some are. Just depending on what mechanism we’re able to flood. 

The information about all those GTRs and all those units, multiple acres, thousands of acres, are on our website. And our operating schedule is clearly posted there, when we started flooding them, when we closed gates or boards, and what the status of their current flood status is. So if you go to the website, go to hunting, go to waterfowl, and you can see the operational plans for both our moist soil units and our green tree reservoirs. So that’s the status of how we operate. 

Currently we only have one pump that’s not functional. That one pump is a brand new moist soil unit that’s never been flooded before, never been waterfowl hunted before. And the reason we don’t have that pump under status right now is because it’s a gas operated apparatus and we simply do not have the gas permit and gas connection to that pump on this new area. 

You may be referring to a pump that was reflected in social media back in the fall about a vandalism at Ed Gordon Point Remove. That pump was vandalized in July of 2027, along with several farmers’ pumps in that same geography. Those pumps all had parts returned in November from the manufacturer. Those pumps are not mechanical. Those pumps are driven by real stats. Reastatic drive means that we can– it’s like driving a four wheeler without gears. You can turn it up or turn it down, but it doesn’t have gears that operate it. The parts to replace those pumps are not readily available in stock. 

The pump at Ed Gordon Point Remove that was vandalized, all the metal componentry and some of the electronic componentry was stolen. Those pumps began running on December the 8th and have run nonstop ever since then. Likewise, the private land pumps that are adjacent to Ed Gordon Point Remove that were vandalized still haven’t started running yet. 

Senator Missy Irvin Remind me. Hurricane Lake, is that one of the areas that you manage? 

Doug Schoenrock Yes ma’am. Yes ma’am. 

Senator Missy Irvin And it’s been flooded?

Doug Schoenrock Hurricane Lake is dependent upon the White River. The water control structure that we finished early in 2025, it depends on White River flow. The water control structure we replaced in there was not at the correct elevation. And consequently, that area was a lake for a long time. Never has been intended to be a lake. It’s a green tree reservoir. The flow on, I think it’s Glaze Creek that runs through that area right now, is not out of bank. Consequently, that area is not flooded. And that’s due to the White River flow that feeds the creek. 

Lake Conway update

Senator Missy Irvin I got you. And then probably a good time– we’ve got a question. But also the damn, it looks like there’s good progress on Lake Conway. 

Doug Schoenrock Yes, ma’am. There’s a public meeting coming up next week on the 27th. 

Senator Missy Irvin Where is that? 

Doug Schoenrock It is at Mayflower High School. That dam is under construction. The lake work, for all intents and purposes, is complete. Now we’re replacing the water control structure on that dam to be able to better control high water, as well as to mitigate water if we need to drain water for repairs. But that construction is well underway. 

Senator Missy Irvin Yeah. Okay. Good. That’s a great update because I know we had some– I just saw that that was in the news. So it’s the 27th at Mayflower High School is that public comment meeting. Okay, perfect. We’re going to go ahead and go to questions on this topic, and then we’ll move to the next. Representative Ladyman, you’re recognized for a question. 

Representative Jack Ladyman Thank you, Madam Chair. Director Schoenrock, thanks for being here. This is a little bit of a different question, maybe off the subject you’re talking about, but Lake Frierson up in Craighead County, that’s a Fish and Game lake. I don’t know whether you’re familiar with it or not, but you were talking about pumps and maintenance and that sort of thing. 

Your predecessor, about two or three years ago, might’ve been three years ago, we had a drought up there and we discussed draining the lake down a little bit to release some water in the creek there. And he told me that there’s a level mechanism on the dam at that lake. There’s an upper valve and a lower valve. 

And what I was told was that they couldn’t open that valve because it had not been maintained. And they were afraid they couldn’t close it and it would totally drain the lake. Is there any kind of maintenance been done on that? Or do you have maintenance schedules on something like that? 

Doug Schoenrock We have maintenance schedules on all of those. Sir, I’m not that familiar with that particular apparatus, but I can get back to you with that information. 

Representative Jack Ladyman Well, this was a very important issue for the farmers around there. They could use the water. The lake had plenty of water, but they weren’t able to open that valve, they told me, because of maintenance. 

Doug Schoenrock I’ll look into that, sir, and get back to you. 

Representative Jack Ladyman Thank you. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. Senator Hammer, you’re recognized for questions. 

Senator Kim Hammer Thank you, Madam Chair. Do you care if I ask a question about Lake Conway? You brought it up– I know it’s not on that subject. Is that okay? 

Senator Missy Irvin I don’t care. I think it’s just good information and you’ve got the right person at the table. 

Senator Kim Hammer Okay, thank you. In driving by Lake Conway, the property owners that have the docks around the lake, what is the process for notifying them of when they need to have their docks redone by so that they have ample warning? And then you and we don’t start getting calls about, Well, we didn’t know, and they’ve missed that window.

Doug Schoenrock Sure. For the past six months, we’ve contacted those individuals by certified mail. I think the deadline was extended. I think to 12/31. And crews are, at this point in time, working on removing the docks that are in disrepair.

Senator Kim Hammer Okay, thank you. And second thing, you may not know anything about this. It’s more curiosity. I went yesterday along I-40, do you know what the smoke was created from yesterday? And did that have anything to do with the lake project? 

Doug Schoenrock No sir, it did not. There were some wildfires in the state, which with the rainfall of today, we hope they’re gone. 

Senator Kim Hammer All right, thank you. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. Okay, next topic. If you want to go ahead, we’ll discuss the duck season and the discussion of Flyway Federation’s impact. 

Duck season discussion

Doug Schoenrock Sure. Thank you ma’am. It has been an interesting duck season. And I’m honored to be working in a state where we have, I think, the most passionate waterfowlers in the nation. And to your comment earlier ma’am, we are the number one duck destination in the nation, and we will remain that. 

Unfortunately, this year Arkansas is– basically 90% of the state is in either extreme or moderate drought. We’re running from 9 to 12 inches of rainfall in deficit. I couldn’t sit here back in April and May and tell you the same thing. We had a lot of rain in April and May. We had the third driest November and December since 1893. We are in the top 10 driest years in the state since 1893. 

So these droughts have a significant impact on surface water. Surface water, obviously, based on comments earlier made about GTRs and moist soil units, have a huge implication on our ability to flood. We may not have water available in a ditch to pump, or our pump levels are at such where we can’t reach the water level. 

We do not pump from groundwater. That messes with agriculture and that messes with municipalities. So we try to use surface water where we can or lift water. One point of evidence is that Arkansas rice farmers this year are probably going to be eligible for the highest ever USDA per acre aid payment because of rice crop failure. 

Duck numbers: Strong start, the slow down

So we do surveys. Our first survey was done 12/15 to 12/31, where we do transect flights with biologists over the state. So on 12/31, we were high-fiving. We had twice as many ducks in the state as we did in 2024, same period, on half as much water. So the ducks were concentrated, and in many cases, on private lands. And if it had not been for private lands, I don’t think we would have had enough water to attract as many ducks and hold as many ducks, twice as many as we did the prior year. 

We had 1.4 million ducks in Arkansas on 12/31. Of those, 498,000 were mallards. This was more than 344,000 more mallards on 12/31 than we had on 12/31 of 2024. So it was a 300-plus percent increase in mallards from 24 to 25. 

So fast forward. Now we do January transect flights, so January 1 through January 13. It’s called the Midwinter Survey. And now we’re starting the Late Winter Survey. Actually started flying this week. We’re not flying today. We had 334,000 mallards in the state from January 1 through January 13. Remember, we had 498,000 from December 15 to December 31. We had 544,000 ducks in the state, 545,000 if you round up. 

That’s a million ducks gone, basically, in a 15-day period. All of us remember what happened in the first 15 days of January. I think Christmas, just before, we could have gone out and played golf on Christmas Day. And we had some pretty warm weather and no rainfall. So our already dismal drought conditions increased. Warming weather enabled waterfowl to move further north, just south of where they can tolerate the cold. 

Let’s remember a duck’s biology. A duck flies south because they want food, they want shelter, and they want to renew energy so that they can have enough energy, duck energy, to fly back north in the springtime and breed, raise their kids, and do it all again the next year. Well, so we wouldn’t go to Florida if it wasn’t warm in the Spring, right? Ducks don’t come to Arkansas because they just like coming to Arkansas. Granted, we have set a phenomenal table with our GTRs, our moist soil units, our W rice fields, and a lot of private landowners. 

We set a great buffet up for ducks every year. But they’ll leave us if they can go further north and reduce the energy requirements that they need to fly way into Northern Canada or the boreal forest to breed and do it all again next year. So they’re opportunistic. Right now, despite the fact that we’re only at 545,000 ducks in the state and 334,000 of those are mallards– our typical mallard to total duck ratio in the State of Arkansas is about 63%. 

About 63% of the ducks we have that come here every fall are mallards. We are currently standing at 61% in the last 15 days. So we’re holding our own on mallards. Our buffet is still good. The ducks that are hanging out are good, and some folks have really had good duck seasons. Some folks have had pretty dismal duck seasons. And a lot of that has to do with water. 

Flyway Federation and Louisiana chagrin

Regarding the Flyway Federation, if you don’t mind, ma’am, I’ll continue on that. The Flyway Federation is a fairly vocal Louisiana based waterfowl hunting organization, and they frequently voice concerns. The Flyway Federation engaged Senator Kennedy from Louisiana to write a letter. And I have comments on that, and I’ll reserve those unless I need to go there. 

But duck migration, as I mentioned earlier, are really based on three factors. Photo period is one of them, daylight. Number two is weather. And number three is food. And the bulk of mallards, which is really what this is about in the state of Louisiana, it’s about mallards and it’s about corn. So it’s about mallards in Louisiana. 

It’s about corn in the mid latitudes of our flyway. The bulk of mallards are only going to fly as far as they need to. I have relatives in Michigan who have 400 mallards sitting right now on a lake on ice. They can tolerate some cold weather. And as long as there’s no snow cover there, they’ll go out in dry field feed, and they’ll go back and they’ll sit on ice or they’ll find an open river to get water or get invertebrates, which is what they feed on. 

A duck is pretty hardy. If you look at other ducks that feed on corn: widgeon, teal, shovelers, gadwall, Louisiana’s killing a lot more of those than they ever have in the past. Those ducks eat the same corn that the mallards are eating in Illinois and Missouri right now. They’re just not as cold tolerant. They’re flying to Louisiana. 

For that reason, Louisiana still remains the number two duck harvest state in the nation. Number one is California on average duck per day. Number two is Louisiana. Number three is Arkansas at 18.8 ducks per season, not ducks per day. But we still remain the number of total duck harvest in the state with well over 1.1 million ducks harvested in the state. 

So, migration movement, obviously, is controlled by a lot of different factors. We’re not in the mid latitudes. We’re kind of pinched between the southern latitude and the mid latitude. Arkansans typically benefit from waterfowl migration, especially mallards. And what really attracts those mallards are our green tree reservoirs, which several years ago, this agency launched a great effort in trying to restore GTRs. 

And what you just mentioned, Hurricane, a few minutes ago, is a perfect example of a successful GTR renovation. And Red Oak regen. Red Oak regen will create mallard habitat for generations to come. And I hate to say it, that none of us sitting in this room will be here for that fruitful time, but it will come. And it ensures waterfowl for future generations on Arkansas GTRs. 

Harvest statistics that you may read about don’t necessarily support the comment of a plummeting duck populations over the last 25 years. Our mallard harvest averages about 390,000 to 400,000 ducks a year for the past five seasons. That is 2.3 times the next highest mallard harvest of any other state in the country. 

Arkansas’s total duck harvest has averaged 1.1 million in the past seasons. We still remain number one, followed by California and Louisiana. And I mentioned that we harvest about 18.8 ducks per year per hunter. So the rhetoric being introduced by the Flyway Federation, which is a relatively small organization, I think they’re feeling the impact of a 6.6 million mallard migration, and not a 10 million mallard migration that happened back in 10, 15 years ago. 

They’re also feeling the effect of warmer weather, which in the case of mallards getting to Louisiana, is definitely hurting. That’s pretty much what I have to say about duck hunting in Arkansas. Are we in the good old days? We are not. We have seen the good old days, but we’re close to where they have been. 

Senator Missy Irvin So, okay, thank you for that. What was their ask? 

Doug Schoenrock Their ask is for Senator Kennedy to introduce legislation or research to make illegal hunting of standing corn in the mid-latitudes of the flyway. They’re basing that information on a revision to the 1998 Migratory Bird Treaty Act. There was a revision to that act. They’re claiming that since that point in time, mallards are being held in the mid latitudes due to standing corn. 

Ma’am, that act revision had nothing to do with standing corn. Standing corn has been legal forever for waterfowl hunting. That act had to do with restricting illegal baiting on properties to mitigate the ability of joining properties to legally hunt it because of proximity. Had nothing to do with standing corn. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. All right. Thank you. Senator Hickey, you’re recognized.

Senator Jimmy Hickey Thank you sir. I’m over here. Yes, sir. First of all, let me say that I’ve always been a great advocate of y’all, a big advocate. I understand you’ve got a terrible job almost. You’ve got to maintain relationships with constituents and the public, while at the same time doing enforcement. And we all know how that can be. 

But I also know this, that myself and your agency are here to kind of represent the constituents of this state, of course. Or that’s the way I see it. I assume you do, too. Now, I’ll be, with any luck, I will be 60 this year. And I’ve been thinking about this for the last week. 

Things were a little different when I was younger, so we were probably running down in the South Arkansas and the Red River bottoms with single shots and bolt actions when I was somewhere around 9  without supervision. Right or wrong, that’s the way we did it. 

Doug Schoenrock We all grew up that way, sir. 

Senator Jimmy Hickey Yes, sir. So what I have right now, though, and I definitely believe that weather is an impact. There’s no doubt. However, this trend has been going on, and we can sit here for the next decade and say, ‘the weather, the weather, the weather.’ 

And the constituents that I’m talking to, and I also believe this myself, is they think that something additional needs to be done. And I hear what you say about Arkansas being the number one state for ducks. And that’s great. I want to stay there and I actually want to greatly exceed that. So, from my standpoint, though, it’s fairly obvious. Again, like I say, going to be 60. 

And out in those Red River bottoms, which we all know is a major flyway, over the last 10, 12 years, those holes that I’ve known, I’ve seen less and less and less, regardless of the weather. And I know we’ve got the statistics that we do and this honor system with the hip and however all that works. And hopefully people are doing that correctly. I don’t know that everybody is but that’s just kind of the nature of that beast to try to at least get some type of sampling. I understand. 

So, again, my constituents want to see something different. And I just heard what you said about the hunting over corn. It seems like to me that this federation in Louisiana, I don’t see how that can help Arkansas strategically in any way, shape or fashion. If you’ve got people– and I’m not asking you all to do anything here. 

What I’d like to see you do is try to get some type of national coalition to try to look at some things that possibly would help strategically from a national level, not only for the state of Arkansas, but for every state. And I just do not see how allowing hunting over unharvested corn up north helps us. And I know that’s a big deal going around right now, but I just happen to agree with that. Could you weigh in on that just a little bit? That you think that would help Arkansas, who we represent, how that helps us with our hunting and the future of hunting from now on?

Doug Schoenrock So hunting over any kind of food augments the opportunity for success. One of the biggest risks to the Flyway Federation communication is it creates a divide among the waterfowling community and it opens a significant opportunity for folks who don’t believe in hunting to enter in and divide a very tight-knit and relatively small organization of waterfowls. 

I agree with you that we should have dialogue with other states, and I do. I will tell you that friends in Louisiana often complain about green tree reservoirs in Arkansas. And that if we weren’t holding all the mallards in Arkansas, they’d have more than 10,000 mallards in Louisiana. I talked to the Illinois director about, Gosh, if you didn’t have all the corn, we’d have 800,000 mallards in Louisiana. 

I think the biggest thing that impacts duck populations nationwide, and especially in our flyway, is policy-related. It’s not policy that was crafted in this room. It’s a policy on the federal level that deals with water policy and wetland policy and habitat policy in the breeding grounds. Habitat in the breeding grounds is absolutely essential for us to have ducks over our decoys. That is one component and probably the most component. 

But, sir, I do agree with you that we want to listen. We have the same customer in the constituents. I want every duck hunter that goes afield to have success. And we are working with other states, as well as with our staff, to figure out, What’s the best energy to put on the landscape? Is it rice? Is it moist soil? Is it green tree reservoirs? Is it National Wildlife Refuges? If flooded corn takes hold through this waterfowl Flyway Federation, what’s next? Plant moist soil? We can’t flood green timber? National refuges can’t have food sources? Provide duck energy days so that they can wing their way back north and breed again? 

So it starts with habitat in the north, but then it also ends with habitat here and setting the right table here. And our agency does the best to set the right table, sir. 

Senator Jimmy Hickey Sure. And I appreciate your comments. If I may continue, whoever’s chairing? Madam chair? I appreciate that, and I had listed a list of things here– some of them may be controversial– that I thought that, again, I don’t understand why we can’t do some type of coalition or compact with these people that you’re talking about to try to come up with stuff. I agree 100% with the pothole region. 

But what’s so odd to me is we sit here and talk about this and there’s not water there. But there’s really nobody that– and I hate to get government involved in a lot of this stuff, because I understand it could go sideways in a hurry. But there’s nobody there to say, Okay, this year, there wasn’t as much rain up there. 

We understand that there’s not going to be as many breeding pairs, and we expect that, that can tactically move, and maybe lower the hunting limit by one duck or two or whatever it might would take. And again, I’m at the age that I remember the point system and how tough that was. And you shot one hen and you were done. 

So I understand that we’ve come a long way. And I think we’ve done it the correct way, think you all have done it the correct way with, like, well, you can still– just the overall limit so that you do it so that if somebody was to shoot a hen that it’s not automatically over for their hunt right at that second. 

So the thing is, I don’t see any way that we’re navigating that with any type of compact with the other states. And correct me if I’m wrong about that. Down in my area also, and don’t live there now but one of my last neighborhoods that I used to live in, I literally could take a rock and hit Texas. 

And what’s always been kind of odd to me is we don’t have some type of a standardized system. Like over there, you shoot five mallards. And in Arkansas, you shoot four. Don’t care. It’s just always seemed odd to me that we don’t have some type of standardized limits for that. And maybe there’s an explanation to that. I don’t know. But it’s just things like that that it seems like to me that, yeah, we can talk to each other in the state but until we organize or do some type of compact that we’re never never going to do anything also. 

Doug Schoenrock So the season length and the bag limit and the species allowed within that bag are set by the US Fish and Wildlife Service. Texas does not have a five mallard limit. Our limit is the same at, I think, four mallards. Two can be hens. The only state that differs from that is California. And they’re on the Pacific Flyway and their breeding population survey is from a totally different place in Canada. 

We don’t have the leeway to say, you can kill one, you can kill 10, or whatever. We are set with a framework. We have the leeway to reduce what the federal framework says. We can say, you could only kill three mallards. We can say, you can only hunt 45 days. 

Right now, we’re mandated based on mallard count. The threshold is 4.5 million mallards in the flyway that would take us to a more restrictive season. We’re at 6.6. The folks that I talk to at various NGOs don’t see us getting to 4.5 in a long time, and if ever. We have never been there. Well, I take it back, we were at that point when we had 100 point rules, sir, where we had to identify what we shot before we shot it. 

So we do work closely with other states, though, when it comes to rules, regulations that we can implement as a state. Federal migratory waterfowl are federal migratory waterfowl. The US Fish and Wildlife and the federal government gives us the opportunity to harvest them and hunt them. We don’t regulate them like we do deer or turkeys or bear within our state. And so we are somewhat handicapped by the federal framework on that, sir. 

Senator Jimmy Hickey Sure. I understand. But again, it just looks like to me that they would be– I keep saying compact coalition– that they will be included along with the states in something like that so that everybody can sit down and have some discussion about some of this stuff and some of the stuff that they see or some suggestion from some of these constituents that may be taken into account. 

So, yeah, I understand perfectly what you’re saying about the corn. You’re, like, well where would it stop? You’d have to use some common sense like that. And I’d argue this all day. It’s kind of like me, you put a plate of almonds in front of me or some chocolate pie, old fat boy here is going to go to that. I think everybody here knows that ducks are most attracted, in my opinion, to corn. I think it’s one of those things that I understand and agree with what you say. 

And you’ve got to have some common sense, and you’re always going to have those people that are going to try to spin something different. But that’s what I would like to see is that somehow that you all get with the other states, the feds, whoever it is, to form this, to try and take all this stuff into account instead of us just sitting here waiting for another decade talking about weather and this and that without any type of a valid plan that starts in Canada and comes all the way down. 

And again, I do appreciate you all. Don’t think anything that I’m saying is against you all. I understand your job. It’s just, from what I’m hearing, the vast majority, and you can find people who don’t, my constituents and the people of Arkansas, they want to see something different. Thank you, sir.

Doug Schoenrock Sir, to answer your question, I am on a panel with other states and I’ve spoken directly with Director Brian Nesvet with the US Fish and Wildlife Service about this very thing you’re talking about. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. And I think just to follow up, I share the exact same concerns. And at some point, I clearly understand Senator Kennedy. I mean, he’s doing what he needs to be doing for his state. But at what point, and I just think we would lean on your advice, do we need to engage with our federal delegation if it got to that point, just so that we can make sure we’re defending our state and our interest? And I think that’s going to be important to me and to all of us when it comes to these important issues. 

Doug Schoenrock So far, no one in DC has signed on to Senator Kennedy’s letter.

Senator Missy Irvin OK. Well, that’s good.

Doug Schoenrock And we will be visiting the contingent from here with our federal partners in DC from Arkansas in March. 

Senator Missy Irvin Good. Well, let us know how we can engage with that. I think you have a lot of interest amongst the legislature. Senator Bryant. 

Coordination with US Fish and Wildlife

Senator Joshua Bryant Thank you, madam chair. I was just curious, kind of in the line of questions with the State Police before and their interaction with our federal partners, what role does the Game and Fish Commission play with the US Wildlife in dealing with activities on private clubs and what their regulations, since this is a regulatory migratory bird, what is the commission’s role in dealing with federal? 

Doug Schoenrock I will attempt to answer that. But I also have my colonel sitting behind me. I may turn around and have Joe come up here, too. So Joe, when I try to answer this, I’ll turn around. And if I did good, give me a thumbs up. Otherwise, come on up. But yes, sir. We there are federal US Fish and Wildlife officers, not as many as there used to be. 

A lot of them are regulated to doing other law enforcement work that deals with some of the topics that were discussed earlier in the meeting with ICE. We pretty much regulate right now without the support of US Fish and Wildlife here on the ground because of their limited resources. We have the same laws. 

When we meet with them, the federal harvest rules, the Federal laws are the same for US Fish and Wildlife as they are for Arkansas Game and Fish. So we assert those rules. In the past, there’s been a higher prevalence of US Fish and Wildlife officers here. Not so much this year. I got a thumbs up. Is that okay with y’all? 

Senator Joshua Bryant So, I guess whenever the US Fish and Wildlife come do an investigation and they believe they have probable cause to enter onto a private Arkansas resident’s property, do you partner with them? 

Doug Schoenrock Yes, sir. 

Senator Joshua Bryant And do you do your own investigation or do you just follow their lead typically? 

Doug Schoenrock No, sir. We do an investigation with them. 

Senator Joshua Bryant Okay. All right. Thank you. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. I appreciate that discussion. I mean, I think the other concern, and it’s just the nature of the water issues that we have. I’m always looking also to make sure that when you come to hunt in the state of Arkansas, you can do it without having to pay to go to a private club to hunt. So we have to make sure that there’s a balance there. And I know that’s a huge challenge for y’all. Nothing against private clubs, but not everybody can pay $1,000 or $2,000 a night to go on a hunt.

Doug Schoenrock Pretty expensive for four ducks, four mallards.

Senator Missy Irvin Very expensive, but it is the nature of it. There’s nothing wrong with it. I just want to make sure somebody can shoot ducks for a lot less than that. Senator Bryant, did you have another question? Okay, hold on. 

Senator Joshua Bryant Yeah, thank you. Thank you, madam chair. I just want to unpack a little bit of what that process looks like, as far as, I think there was some potential legislation in the last few cycles about how the warrant process works and how entering private property works. Can you explain a little bit how that process would work in the cooperation with federal authorities? 

Doug Schoenrock The SOP with our enforcement division is to articulate a reasonable cause for entering private property prior to entering that. We don’t have officers just roam around on private ground without permission trying to look for violators. We have to articulate an articulatable cause before entering private property. 

Senator Joshua Bryant Do you use the courts to get that? Or once you have it, you just use your own jurisdiction? 

Doug Schoenrock We use our own jurisdiction, sir. 

Senator Joshua Bryant Okay. So there’s no judiciary involved in the initial breach of private property? 

Doug Schoenrock Unlike other states. For example, Tennessee has to have a court order from a judge to enter private property. We don’t have that. 

Senator Joshua Bryant Okay, and does the federal system, if the feds were going to come and you disagree, could the feds still enter with their regulations on private property? 

Doug Schoenrock Yes, sir. 

Senator Joshua Bryant Okay, all right. Thank you. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. Okay. And then the last item on the agenda is just an update on this boating accident that occurred and just an overview of how y’all managed that situation. 

Boating fatality at Bayou Meto

Doug Schoenrock Yes, ma’am. Thank you. Very tragically, obviously, on December 19, a 33-year-old individual was tragically killed while boating coming out from duck hunting at Bayou Meto, which is a WMA. There were two occupants in the boat. The boat struck a tree and ejected the passenger in the front of the boat from the vessel. 

The operator of the vessel struck that tree and was mortally wounded. The occupant in the boat was able to regain and then re-enter the boat and navigate the boat to the nearest ramp, where CPR was performed on the individual. And the individual was med-flighted and obviously succumbed from his wounds. The boat was a 15-foot-long edge boat, typical waterfowling boat with a 25 horsepower motor on it. Completely legal for Arkansas 

The accident report that I’ve read does indicate, from the damage to the vessel and damage to the tree, that the boat probably was running at an excessive speed and possible recklessness. We’re not sure, but a high rate of speed for those conditions in a flooded timber area. With any fatality, toxicology reports are mandatory. We do not have toxicology results yet in this. But it’s not suspected that there would be an adverse toxicology event there. 

This is very serious. We are working with an NGO to help memorialize this individual there. And hopefully this widow’s intent is to convey a message of safety. And we hope to do that in honor of this individual. Very tragic. 

Senator Missy Irvin Yeah, I just I read about her desire to do that, and I thought that was just really just such a great thing for her to say, for us to be able to promote that. So I just look forward to kind of however we can partner with her. And I understand she’s working with you and others, but how we could partner with her on that. 

I think It’s really important because, as much as you may hate it or like it or whatever, I mean, there’s so much on social media and TikTok in particular of these just wild and crazy boat races down this flooded timber in Arkansas, at Bayou Meto and other places, that it can become an incredibly dangerous situation really, really fast. 

Doug Schoenrock It is a very dangerous situation. 

Senator Missy Irvin And so how do we make sure that when you come that there’s some parameters and some safety measures around that, I think is just really tricky because the more that’s played out on social media, the more people will come and want to participate in it or watch it or whatever. It just creates this unbelievable spectacle. And so that that’s concerning to me, knowing that. It sounds like this is kind of a one-off situation. But anyway, I appreciate that. Are there any questions? Uh-huh. Go ahead.

Representative Dwight Tosh Thank you, madam chair. Director, thank you for being here today. And I just want to thank you from the meeting we had in November. We had kind of an uncomfortable meeting. We addressed a lot of concerns that were occurring there in northeast Arkansas out at, I believe, St. Francis Sunken Lands. 

And I’ll say this, I’m not sure all the concerns were met, but I do know that I stopped receiving phone calls. So whatever you all did, I applaud you for it because apparently it corrected the situation. And thank you for this informative information today. 

And I’ve got one request. I would like to meet the person that counted the ducks here in Arkansas on those dates, 1.5 million and so many mallards. I mean, you need to bring them with you here before committee. We’d like to meet them. 

Doug Schoenrock So that’s one of the most dangerous jobs in managing wildlife is getting in a Piper Cub, flying at low altitude, hanging out of a window and counting ducks. 

Representative Dwight Tosh Yeah, we all want to meet him. Alright, thank you, Director. 

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. And we’re glad to have some commissioners here with us. Commissioner Caldwell is here and we appreciate you being here. Senator Flippo, do you have a question for Commissioner Caldwell? 

Impact of windmills on migration patterns

Senator Scott Flippo Yeah, Commissioner, just want to ask you kind of about some of the concerns I’m hearing from some of my family and avid duck hunters about the potential impact that windmills and solar panels might be having on the migratory patterns of the waterfowl population. So if you’d just speak to any kind of ideas that the commission has on that or a game plan. 

Doug Schoenrock I’m here to help you, Chris, whatever you need, buddy. 

Senator Missy Irvin If you’ll just state your name for the record. 

Chris Caldwell Chris Caldwell. 

Senator Missy Irvin You’re recognized. 

Chris Caldwell Thank you, Senator. Well, as was discussed in several hearings last session, there is continuous study going on. And at the moment, I think I receive a lot of personal calls on the regular about this as both go up throughout the state, but particularly in the flyway. 

And I am no scientist, but it is definitely of concern, particularly with the potential to alter the migration. I think the president actually tweeted this morning his favorite line about killing the birds. And so I speak for myself as we’re always greatly concerned with anything that might alter the flyway, as Senator Hickey alluded to earlier, anything that might affect, not just obviously our job to conserve the species for future Arkansans, but also not have a detrimental impact to Arkansans and those that you mentioned, Senator Irvin, that come to our state to experience this. So we will stand by to what this body decides to do, if any future regulation to curtail any ill effects. 

Senator Scott Flippo Has there been any discussions amongst the commissioners, maybe a potential program to partner with private landowners in keeping their land in its natural form, if you will. 

Chris Caldwell We do have a program called the Conservation Incentive Program, W Rice program, that exists to provide habitat for ducks and to provide opportunities for the public to go to private land. In this particular guise of like an incentive program, do you mean to do that– 

Senator Scott Flippo You don’t have the restoration if you’re doing it for deer populations or other wildlife. There’s a program that–

Chris Caldwell We currently have a program in existence called the CIP, Conservation Incentive Program, and DMAP program for deer, turkey, quail. I mean we have various programs for technical assistance, particularly like hog eradication and everything for actual equipment as funds are available. 

Senator Scott Flippo And just on a personal note, and not speaking on behalf of your other commissioners, do you personally have any concerns about windmills and solar panels and the migratory patterns or a negative effect on that? 

Chris Caldwell Yes. 

Senator Scott Flippo Thank you, sir.

Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. Very good questions actually because I have the same concern. And I don’t know if there’s a way to explore the ability for us to incentivize landowners not to install windmills and solar panels in prime hunting areas in the state and the flyway. I don’t know if there’s the ability to do that or if we could even afford to offset what that would even look like but it’s a big concern.

Doug Schoenrock We haven’t even gone there yet, ma’am. But there is research that has been commissioned to look at flyway and waterfowl movement and their avoidance behaviors when it comes to wind. 

Senator Missy Irvin Is that federal or is that– 

Doug Schoenrock That is done by the University of Arkansas Monticello, the new Snowden Endowed Center for Waterfowl Excellence. 

Senator Missy Irvin That’s right. Okay. And do we have a timeline of when that’s going to be completed?

Doug Schoenrock No, ma’am. This data will probably take two years at least. 

Senator Missy Irvin All right. Cool. Thank you. Good information. Any other questions from members of the committee? All right, seeing none, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. And we’ll see you soon. Thank you so much. We’re adjourned.