Arkansas Legislative Council, Peer Subcommittee
November 18, 2025
Representative Jon Eubanks Members, if you start taking your seats, we’re going to get started momentarily. All right, members, I call this meeting to order. Chair sees a quorum. Billy, if you’re ready to start.
ASMSA Funding Request (Held)
Staff Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re in section B. This is a various temporary appropriation request. There’s only one item on the agenda. It’s a letter from the University of Arkansas, Arkansas School for Mathematics, Sciences and the Arts. It’s for 3 million in appropriation over several line items. According to the letter, it is to utilize existing general revenue and prior year carryover funds to support operations.
Representative Jon Eubanks Representative Cavenaugh, you’re recognized for a question. I assume you want the University of Arkansas to come up to the–
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Representative Jon Eubanks If you could identify yourself for the record, then Representative Cavenaugh, you’d be recognized to ask your question.
Corey Alderdice Corey Alderdice, Executive Director, ASMSA.
Steve Malec Steve Malec, Director of Finance, ASMSA.
Tara Smith Tara Smith, CFO for the University of Arkansas System Office.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Thank y’all for being here. My question is I’m a little confused. When I look at this request, it talks about the construction of a new maintenance building, Little Pine Construction, stairwell renovation. But when you look down at what they’re actually requesting, you’re requesting for regular salaries, extra help, personnel matching. So my question is, do you have skilled tradesmen on salary and that’s what you’re needing to pay out of this money?
Tara Smith If okay, I want to give a little bit of background as to the process that’s used to get appropriations approved through the regular legislative process.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh I’m well aware of that, ma’am. Very well of that, probably more so than you.
Tara Smith That’s where the error was made. That’s why I just want to go back. This was back from when the ASMSA requested in preparation for the last legislative session. There are forms that are filled out, sent to ADHE that then come over to the legislature. And there was some staff turnover that was occurring at ASMSA at that point in time in finance, and those forms did not get filled out correctly, such that the appropriation levels were not sufficient from when they were presented back during the legislative session.
So that is going on in combination with the capital projects that are provided in the letter listing, which indicates it’s ongoing operations plus their capital projects. So that’s why you’ll see that there’s a requested increase to the line item for the salaries and fringes within this request. ASMSA, it has revenue coming in from the state this year that totals $12.98. And at their current appropriation levels, they’re actually beneath that. So I just want to explain that that ties back some to that original request back during the legislative session.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh If you knew that you had made a mistake during the budgeting process on your salaries match and extra help, how come you haven’t made that request? And now you’re tying it in to where it looks like you’re trying to improve construction.
Tara Smith Sure. I can help speak, and then if ASMSA wants to follow up with my conversations. As the new finance director, Steven, came into his role, he was evaluating what the projected spend was going to be for ASMSA this year and recognized that there was going to be shortages prior to the end of the fiscal year. So as he was doing his projections out, we worked together to put his numbers together to see what appropriations would be needed, hence then the request was made.
Once the MOF was approved, the methods of finance for those capital projects, we jointly put the numbers together for their ongoing operation as well as the capital projects that had been thus approved through the methods of finance process so that we could bring both of those requests together.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh And how long have you known that you were going to need this additional appropriation for personnel? This is not for construction. The way this is presented is that this is tied to construction. So how long has it been since you’ve known that you messed up during budget and you didn’t do the proper forms? How long has that been?
Steve Malec We’ve been aware of it for the past couple of months as we’ve been working through identifying exactly what the need is. This request will bring us back to be more consistent with prior year appropriation levels. And because that carry forward was not considered, we had a shortfall in these categories.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh So during budgeting process, we did not give you this authority. Now you want to increase that authority. Is that what you’re saying? That during our regular budgeting process, you did not ask for this authority and we reduced your authority? Now you’re asking for more.
Steve Malec That’s correct. To be consistent with prior year levels.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh But again, you didn’t ask for it, correct?
Steve Malec The submission was not made on time.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh And how much excess funding do you have in that appropriation?
Steve Malec I’m sorry, what was the question?
Representative Frances Cavenaugh How much excess of funding appropriation do you have in that line item?
Steve Malec In which specific line? In regular salaries?
Representative Frances Cavenaugh In regular salaries, extra help and personnel matching.
Steve Malec So right now the request is that we’re increasing by 683,000.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh That’s not what I’m asking. Generally, every agency has excess funding request and appropriation. How much excess funding request have you had in those personnel, in those line items?
Tara Smith In prior years or in current year?
Representative Frances Cavenaugh What is your balance?
Tara Smith Do you know what your balance is? I can give you overall appropriation.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh No, I don’t want overall appropriation. I’m asking for these three line items that you’re asking to have this additional appropriation. What is your balance in those?
Tara Smith You know how much you’ve submitted? She’s wondering what your balance is versus what you’ve submitted thus far. Yeah.
Steve Malec I know that we’re on track to be roughly– if we have any kind of– we’ve got about a 3.5 percent buffer with where this increase will land. So without this, we’re not going to be able to track with where we were in actuals in FY 25, which were, I believe they were close to 4.5 million. I can get the exact numbers for you.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Chairman, I will have a request at the proper time.
Representative Jon Eubanks Representative Vaught, you’re recognized for a question.
Representative DeAnn Vaught Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m going to ask a question and then I’m going to ask for a little bit of leeway if that’s okay, sir. So I’m looking at your operating expense and that’s a pretty big dramatic jump, to 1.4 million. Can you tell me why that’s such a dramatic increase?
Tara Smith I’m going to start and then I’ll let you. So I’m going to go back to where their appropriation levels normally are, which was in FY25 prior to the error being made in the legislative request process for appropriations. Normally, their appropriation levels in operating expense is 5.25 million. That was FY25’s level.
So in FY26, because the failure to complete the forms correctly, it dropped them down to 3.14 million in operating expenses. So the request for the transfer is an additional 1.4 over the current level of 3.1 million, which puts them at 4.5, roughly 4.5 million, which is still a decline or a decrease from FY20, from prior years appropriation levels, by approximately 13.3%. So even with this request of the increase, again, there was an error made in those FY26 requests. They would still be lower than what their FY25 levels, the prior year’s levels were for that particular line item.
Representative DeAnn Vaught And can you tell me, and you might have already answered it and I just missed it, can you tell me when you figured out that y’all had had this mistake?
Tara Smith Sure, it was sometime in late summer. And as they were working on their capital projects, again, there was a method of finance process. And they were reviewing how much those capital projects were going to be and realizing that there was not enough sufficient appropriation for not only the capital projects but also their ongoing operations because of that error. It was probably August when we started discussing about putting those numbers together to bring forth that request to ensure that there was sufficient appropriations to actually spend the revenues that they are receiving for the state.
Representative DeAnn Vaught Okay. And then I’m going to try to piggyback back off of Representative Cavenaugh. So you have 1.4 million in excess in the appropriation to move over to there, right?
Steve Malec Yeah, it would be utilizing carryover funds.
Tara Smith And that’s actual funding, correct?
Representative DeAnn Vaught So how much funding, how much appropriation funding, do you have left over after you move this 1.4?
Tara Smith They’re speaking to actuals, of what is essentially– so they have in an actual funding, they are set to receive 12.9 million from the state overall. In carryover funds, because of the nature of ASMSA, they do not get to, they don’t charge tuition and fees, so there’s no other means of being able to fund any capital needs for their campus.
They essentially, over some years, they have to cut in any sort of operational spending to put back to save up for capital projects, which has put them in the scenario where they have carryover actual funding balances, such that they spend those at the time that they’re doing those capital projects when those expenses are coming through. So of the 12.9 million that they’ll get be getting in funding this year, they’ve got approximately– how much in your carry forward balance that will then support those additional costs related to capital projects.
Steve Malec Yeah, we ended the year just over 8 million. I believe it was 8.4 million in our state treasury balance.
Tara Smith 13 plus 8. And I don’t think there’s plans to spend the entire amount in FY25 because those capital costs will spread out over several years.
Representative DeAnn Vaught Last question before my leeway. Does that mean you’re going to try to come back to us next fiscal session and say, ‘We spent this much, so we’re going to need this much more money from the state?’ Are you trying to spend down?
Steve Malec We’re spending down that residual carryover in the state treasury balance and we’re asking for the appropriation to utilize those funds in our state treasury account.
Charlie Kirk assassination response
Representative DeAnn Vaught All right, a little leeway, sir? I hate to bring this up here. It’s the only time I’ve seen y’all. But there was reports about a big celebration going on on y’all’s campuses after Charlie Kirk was assassinated. These reports came from students that actually go to school there, and nothing was done to stop the students from having these big celebrations over the murder of a man. I know some students that talked about it should not be celebrated when anybody is murdered, and still the celebrations went on. Can you please explain to me why no one in staff would stop these children from celebrating or your staff from celebrating the murder of a man?
Corey Alderdice If I may speak to that, Representative Vaught. I have no knowledge of such celebrations or actions happening. I agree with you that the loss of any life is abhorrent in and of itself, let alone relishing or celebrating on that. No concerns have been brought to senior leadership or myself on this matter, but it is certainly something that we will investigate based on this information today.
Representative DeAnn Vaught And I will disagree with that, because it was brought up. I know parents that called and asked why this was being allowed to happen on your campus. So I would do a little bit more investigating and ask the people who were actually contacted. Maybe ask around and see who was contacted about this malicious thing that actually took place on your campus. Thank you, sir.
Representative Jon Eubanks Representative Cavenaugh.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to ask that we hold this until the next meeting of ALC so they can provide the information that we’ve requested, which is the information of what their fund balances are in these special items. Are we meeting in December? It’d be December.
Representative Jon Eubanks Chairman.
Senator Jonathan Dismang I just want to make sure that I’m understanding what the motion is and how long we want to hold. I mean, if it’s possible, we could probably get the fund balances today for a Friday meeting if we wanted to take a look at the fund balances. I guess I wanted to make sure I understood where we were, too. And so what we’re talking about is you submitted requests for appropriations that were not sufficient for the actual amount of spending that you are able to do?
Tara Smith And funding, yes.
Senator Jonathan Dismang The amount of funding you receive to be able to spend. So we’re not talking about you getting any more or less money. We’re talking about giving you the authority that you failed to ask for during the actual session.
Tara Smith That’s correct.
Senator Jonathan Dismang And you’re just kind of rectifying that here. But again, I think Representative Vaught had a question about additional monies, whatever. I mean, I anticipate what will happen is– there are no additional monies. But, for instance, on the capital projects, you may not be able to fully utilize or spend those amounts on the capital project. So there’ll be a continuation of that capital project so that you can complete it at some point in the future. And so that would be most likely what would be the outcome, if I’m understanding correctly. But I don’t know that we need to hold it until after the first of the year. And I would also want to make sure that I understood what the impact of that would be. And the other thing is if we have to do something in an emergency situation, I would rather more of us have the ability to vote on that than fewer of us. So I want to work through the timeline before we kind of finalize a motion.
Representative Jon Eubanks Representative Cavenaugh, is your motion to hold it a month or are you willing to wait until Friday and get the information or explanation that you’re requiring?
Representative Frances Cavenaugh We can wait and get the information on Friday, but with the realization that if they can’t come up with the answers that we want, there will be a hold on it made for Friday for a month.
Representative Jon Eubanks Okay, we’ll hold it until Friday. Go ahead.
Senator Jonathan Dismang And then just to make sure that we don’t have something fall through the cracks with communication and on what the request is, can you restate, Representative Cavenaugh, exactly what you want them to provide and how to provide it and make sure that you all have, I guess, the communication paths needed to to wrap this up before Friday?
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I would make the motion that we hold this until ALC Friday so that you can provide us the information about your funding levels that you currently have for all these line items that you have down. So you can tell us exactly what you have and how much you have left in those fund balances.
Tara Smith Quick follow-up question, if it’s okay, to make sure that–
Representative Jon Eubanks Do you understand what she’s asking?
Tara Smith Generally, on the funding side of it, the funding is one bucket, not necessarily broken out. It’s the appropriations that get broken out by line item. So there’s not necessarily a funding grid that does it by line item from an appropriation. So I just want to make sure that we follow up–
Representative Frances Cavenaugh On your appropriations, when you ask for them, you ask them by line item.
Tara Smith On the appropriation side.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Yes.
Tara Smith Correct.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh On those appropriations that you asked for, I would like– there’s two things we’d like to know. How much, if you have any excess appropriations on these line items, okay, and then how much funding you have to back up this request.
Tara Smith Okay. So the funding essentially would be a total. Okay. That makes sense.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay. Thank you.
Representative Jon Eubanks So you understand you need to be back here Friday? We don’t need a motion. We’ll just hold this until Friday. Okay, Billy. Ready to move on.
ARPA Appropriations
Staff Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re in Section C. This is the American Rescue Plan Act Appropriation Requests. There are two. The first one, C1, is a request from the Department of Health. It’s for $139,000. This is to return excess or unused funds to the CDC. Staff learned the original award was 9.3 million in fiscal year 22 for infectious disease detection and mitigation.
Item number two, C2, is also from the Department of Health. This is for $1. Again, it’s to return funds to CDC. Staff learned the original award was for 415,000 in fiscal year 22 for data collection. That was for the surveillance for emerging threats to mothers and babies network. The reason it is $1 is because of a rounding error that was made when the agency requested a reallocation in fiscal year 24.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right, members, are there any questions on C1? C2? If not, I’ll take a motion. Do I have a motion to approve items C1 and C2? We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion is passed. Moving on to D.
IIJA Appropriations
Staff Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re in Section D. These are our Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act appropriation requests. The first one, D1, is from the Department of Transportation for $280 million in spending authority. This is to provide IIJA appropriation for the third quarter. Behind the request is a 23-page report showing all projects obligated with IIJA funds.
We’ll move to the next item, D2. That’s on page 25. On page 25 is D2. This is from the Department of Public Safety, State Crime Lab. it’s for $347,000 in appropriation. They have a grant from the National Highway Safety Administration to complete toxicology testing of motor vehicle crash samples in a timely manner to satisfy reporting requirements. Funds will be used to purchase test kits, lab supplies, and training for staff.
D3 is a request from the Department of Public Safety, Division of State Police. This is a reallocation of previously awarded appropriation. The requests are requesting to transfer $350,000 from overtime to personal services matching. This is to align costs with the federal fiscal year 26 grant budget, and it is part of the coordinated National Highway Safety Program.
D4 is from the Department of Agriculture for $759,000. They have a grant from the USDA to replace equipment and upgrade dispatch systems for improved wildfire response as part of the state force action plan.
D5, Agriculture, $416,000. A USDA grant to strengthen wildfire suppression capacity in high-risk communities. D6, Agriculture, half a million. This is a grant from the USDA to implement the nursery and orchard improvement support program. D7, Agriculture, 78,000. USDA grant to support volunteer fire assistance.
D8 is again Agriculture, 600,000. This is a grant for the USDA to support rural contractors through a partnership with the Arkansas Timber Producers Association. This is through the Temporary Bridge Program. D9 is Agriculture, 75,000. USDA grant to support the community wildfire defense program. D10 is the last item for Agriculture. This is 2.5 million. They have a grant from the EPA to help advance the Gulf Hypoxia Action Plan implementing nutrient reduction strategies.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right, members, I’m going to go down each item. As I call that item, hit your button if you have a question for that item. Any questions for D1? D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9. Senator Johnson, is yours for D9?
Senator Blake Johnson I was trying to get to D10 but you quit.
Representative Jon Eubanks What’s your question?
Senator Blake Johnson Somebody’s gotta explain what the Gulf hypoxia–
Representative Jon Eubanks Okay, is somebody from Department of Agriculture here? Please come to the table and introduce yourself for the record.
Tate Wentz Tate Wentz, Natural Resource Division, Arkansas Department of Agriculture.
Representative Jon Eubanks Senator, you’re recognized.
Gulf Hypoxia Action Plan
Senator Blake Johnson So what’s the Gulf Hypoxia Action Plan and who came up with that?
Tate Wentz So the Gulf Hypoxia Task Force is the twelve member states along the Mississippi River. The Gulf Hypoxia Action Plan is a larger scale plan to reduce nutrient loss across all of the Mississippi River basin. The twelve states along the Mississippi River do have nutrient reduction strategies or loss strategies.
So hypoxia is a pretty fancy word for, as nutrients enter through the Mississippi River to the Gulf of Mexico, it creates large algal balloons. As algae dies, it decomposes and as it decomposes, it consumes all the oxygen in the water. And so it creates these large anoxic or hypoxic areas where it’s unsuitable for aquatic life. So what we’re trying to do is, through voluntary non-regulatory practices, is reduce the nutrient loss.
Senator Blake Johnson So you’re talking about like buffer zones and stuff like that with paying people to–
Tate Wentz Yes, sir. So cost share programs, incentive programs to help incentivize producers to implement those cost share programs to reduce nutrient loss.
Senator Blake Johnson Do you have any production loss in that?
Tate Wentz We try not to. In the practices we’re recommending and trying to utilize, we try and reduce the amount of acreage loss for production.
Senator Blake Johnson Is that like putting in culverts and creating those small buffers between the field and the ditch or–?
Tate Wentz Yes, sir.
So right now we’re mostly focused in on what’s called two stage ditches. In Northeast Arkansas, it’s really trying to better utilize the ditch network in East Arkansas to move water and reduce maintenance costs and, in the same time, increase sediment reduction and sediment loss or nutrient loss.
Senator Blake Johnson Okay. Thank you.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right, do I have a motion to approve D1 through D10? Have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Any opposed? Motion has passed. Billy, moving on to E.
UAMS fund transfer
Staff Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re in Section E. This is a restricted reserve fund transfer request. It is a letter from UAMS. This is a request to transfer 2.9 million from the various general discretionary majority vote set aside. That’s an account within the fund.
It’s to support three programs at the university: the high risk pregnancy program, IDHI stroke program, and the Following Baby Back Home program. For the committee’s information, a $5.8 million transfer was made for these programs plus a sickle cell program back in June of this year.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right, is anyone from UAMS here to answer a question? We have a question from a member. If you will, please introduce yourself for the record.
Andy Davis Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m Andy Davis with UAMS.
Representative Jon Eubanks Senator Crowell, you’re recognized for a question.
Senator Steve Crowell Hey, Mr. Davis. I just heard him say you did 5.8 million back in June for the same programs and now we’re doing 2.9. So it kind of looks like we just– why are we asking for so much?
Andy Davis These programs have been around for a few decades, and in the last couple of years lost some federal funding. So UAMS and the governor’s office have been working together to try to revamp the programs to reduce the cost but also keep them going. So this is funding to just keep them going for several more months while we continue to work on.
Senator Steve Crowell When did we know the federal funding was gone?
Andy Davis Oh, it’s hard to say exactly when. We’ve been working on this for probably a year or more.
Representative Jon Eubanks Okay, seeing no other questions, you’re excused.
Andy Davis Thank you.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right, members, I have a motion to adopt this item. Have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion is passed. Moving on to the items for review, F.
Staff Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re in Section F. Section F is an appropriation and/or fund transfer request. There’s only one item. It’s from the Public Defender Commission, Commission for Parent Counsel. It’s a $16,000 transfer of appropriation from legal services-refunds/reimbursements to extra help. This is to employ a lawyer that will take a part-time position. This lawyer has taken a part-time position with the Public Defender Commission and now with parent counsel instead of a contract position that was initially intended.
Representative Jon Eubanks Seeing no questions, without objection, this item is reviewed. G.
Staff Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re in section G. This is a cash fund appropriation request. This is again from UAMS. It’s $2.9 million. This is to provide the spending authority for the transfer that was approved in the restricted reserve section.
Representative Jon Eubanks Seeing no questions, without objection, this item is reviewed. H.
Staff Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re in Section H. These are miscellaneous federal grant appropriation requests. The first one, H1, is a request from the Department of Human Services, Division of County Operations. It’s for $1.1 million in spending authority. They have a grant from the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services to promote continuity of care for incarcerated juveniles after their release. Staff learned the funds will be used for system changes to software.
H2 is Office of Attorney General, 112,000. They have a grant from the Office of Inspector General to purchase vehicles. H3 is Department of Health, 2.8 million. They have a grant from the Department of Health and Human Services to provide resources and services to clients who are HIV positive.
H4 is Parks, Heritage and Tourism, $86,000. They have a grant from the National Park Service to acquire 40 acres and create boating access at the Cossatot River. H5, Parks, Heritage and Tourism, 410,000. Another National Park Service grant to improve the Snowden Waterfowl rest area with a new bridge. H6, Parks, Heritage and Tourism, 326,000. A National Park Service Grant to rehab the wastewater treatment facility at Queen Wilhelmina State Park.
H7, Parks, Heritage and Tourism, 450,000. Park Service grant to acquire 740 acres to improve the Trusten Holder Wildlife Management Area. H8, Parks, Heritage and Tourism, 425,000. Another grant, this one to renovate the campsite at Crowley’s Ridge State Park.
H9, Parks, Heritage and Tourism, $2.1 million. This grant is to improve Hobbs State Park with the new construction of campsites, cabins, and access road and utility connections. H10 is from the Department of Public Safety. This is for $345,000. They have a grant from the Department of Justice to enhance state victim compensation payments.
H11 through H14 are four different requests from DFA to spend grants totaling 534,000. This is grants from the Department of Justice on Project Safe Neighborhoods. H11 and 12 are for the Western District, and H13 and 14 are for the Eastern District. Project Safe Neighborhood combats violent crime and makes communities safer through funding, resources, and training for law enforcement, prosecutors and their teams. So we’ll move ahead to H15.
H15 is a request from the Department of Labor and Licensing Appraisers Board. It’s for $38,000. They have a grant from the Federal Financial Institution Exam Council to carry out the appraiser regulatory agency support program. H16 is Agriculture. This is a $7 million appropriation request. They have a grant for the USDA Forest Service for land acquisitions in the Maumelle Water Excellence Program.
H17 is the last request. This is for Agriculture, 925,000. They have a grant for the Forest Service to purchase two dozers, two transports, two trucks, and a wildland fire simulation table. Mr. Chair, those are all the MFGs.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right. I guess I’ll go down each one of these to see who these questions are for. So any questions for H1? Representative Rose, you’re recognized. Do we have somebody from DHS? Please identify yourself for the record.
Mary Franklin Good morning. My name is Mary Franklin. I’m the director of the Division of County Operations for DHS.
Representative Jon Eubanks Representative Rose, you’re recognized.
Representative Ryan Rose Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Ms. Franklin, for joining us. I just had a quick question. I noticed most of these seem to be a change in an existing program, but for this grant it was listed as a new program, simply as data processing. And I was just curious if that was something you could share a little more specifics with us about.
Mary Franklin Yes, sir. This grant is for system changes to an existing system, our existing eligibility system, and it is to help us implement requirements of the Consolidated Appropriation Act of 23, which is going to expand eligibility to juveniles who are leaving incarceration for testing and evaluation and continuity of care after the release to help set them up for success. You’ll be seeing policy on this in the Rules Committee in the next few months because we are still working through the process. But this grant in particular was to help us make the system changes to get ready to implement this.
Representative Ryan Rose Could you elaborate on what system changes needed to take place?
Mary Franklin Yes, sir.
Representative Ryan Rose Thank you.
Mary Franklin Update the health care application process and rules to allow eligible juveniles to request health care up to 30 days prior to release from the institutional setting. And eligible juveniles will remain eligible for at least 30 days after their release date. Updates to enhance the redetermination process to redetermine the suspended benefits of non-eligible juveniles up to 30 days prior to release and to continue them eligible for at least 30 days post-release.
And also to enhance our community partner portal for public institutions to be able to submit applications online for these eligible juveniles to give them an additional way in addition to paper should they choose to use the online avenue to submit these applications. And also we’re creating training materials and guides for those public institutions to use for this process.
Representative Ryan Rose I couldn’t tell, were you saying that some of these things are already done? Or these are things that you will be doing?
Mary Franklin Some of these things are already done.
Representative Ryan Rose So is this like paying a contract or is it a staffing thing?
Mary Franklin It’s paying a contract for the system changes.
Representative Ryan Rose Okay, so these are contracts that you’ve already negotiated and essentially have enacted and now we’re coming in to pay for those?
Mary Franklin This request today is for the appropriation so that we can use this grant funding to pay for those services.
Representative Ryan Rose Okay. Thank you.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right, any questions for H2? H3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13? 12? 11. Okay. DFA, somebody come up to the table. Identify yourself for the record, please, and then Representative Richardson will be recognized for a question.
Jim Hudson Jim Hudson, Secretary DFA.
Dora Smith Dora Smith, administrator of DFA Intergovernmental Services.
Alan McVey Alan McVey, Chief of Staff, DFA.
Representative Jay Richardson Good morning. Thank you guys for being here. The Safe Neighborhood Program, is that the same program that was basically being done in Pine Bluff a while back?
Dora Smith Yes, Pine Bluff was funded for a Project Safe Neighborhood program.
Representative Jay Richardson Okay. And then this will go to allow it to move across the state, correct?
Dora Smith The programs are across the state. They are determined by the US Attorney’s Office for each district, eastern and western, depending on the funding that is available and the designated programs that they determine to fund.
Representative Jay Richardson So where in the East and Western district will these programs go to once, if it’s approved?
Dora Smith Some have been, in the past, we’re waiting on the appropriation to deliver the funding. But like Marion, Pine Bluff, Blytheville, Jonesboro, West Memphis.
Jim Hudson Those decisions have not been made yet though. We have to get the appropriation first and we’ll get the recommendations from the U.S. Attorney’s Office. We’ll work with them to get the list finalized.
Representative Jay Richardson Okay, that’s what all I needed. Thank you guys.
Representative Jon Eubanks Okay, any questions for 12, 13, 14, 15, 16? Representative Cavenaugh?
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Can I have someone from the Department of Agriculture?
Representative Jon Eubanks Please identify yourself for the record. Turn your mic on. Okay.
Central Arkansas Water land purchase (Held)
Jim Jolly Sorry. Good morning. I’m Jim Jolly. I’m the forestry manager from the Arkansas Department of Agriculture Forestry Division.
Inoussa Zaki Inoussa Zaki, fiscal officer, Department of Agriculture.
Representative Jon Eubanks Representative Cavenaugh, you’re recognized for a question.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m over here. Thank y’all for being here. Real quick question on the land that you’re purchasing for $7 million, what land is that and what’s it going to be used for? If you can explain that.
Jim Jolly So the land is in Pulaski and Perry counties. And Central Arkansas Water will be purchasing it for their possession they’re holding. And the reason why they’re purchasing it is they’re being proactive in purchasing land around waterways such as the Big Maumelle River and there’s creeks that drain into the Lake Maumelle. And they’re being proactive by preventing sediment and chemicals from flowing into these waterways. And it reduces the cost of the treatment for the city water.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay. And how many acres is that?
Jim Jolly It’s 1,325 acres, and there’s six tracts.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay, so want to make sure I understand. This is a grant from the Department of Agriculture to purchase land. But you just said that a water system was purchasing the land.
Jim Jolly Right. Central Arkansas Water is a quasi-state agency and the Department of Agriculture is the lead agency for the forest legacy program. And so the funds will be passed through the Department of Agriculture to Central Arkansas Water to purchase the property.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay, they can’t apply for the grant directly? It has to go through the Department of Ag?
Jim Jolly Yes, because we’re the lead agency and the applications come through us and go to the US Forest Service.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay. So you said they’re a quasi-state agency, but they’re just a water area. They’re just rural water. How is that a quasi-state agency?
Jim Jolly Well, they’re formed via the legislature. So we investigated that before we allowed applications. And so it was determined that they were eligible to be a state holder of the property.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay, so basically the state’s not going to own this land? The land is going to be owned by the water?
Jim Jolly Central Arkansas Water. Yes, ma’am.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay. Thank you.
Representative Jon Eubanks Senator Johnson, is your question for the– okay.
Senator Mark Johnson Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Jolly, I’m right over here. This area’s in my district. Can you give me a description of where this property is in relationship to Lake Maumelle itself and/or the Lake Maumelle watershed? Because we have a couple of different watersheds out there that I’m concerned about.
Jim Jolly Right, it all within the Lake Maumelle watershed. And part of the property is on the northwest side of Lake Maumelle, and the other property joins the US Forest Service in Perry County. And the one in Perry County is close to the Big Maumelle. And then the others are located along tributaries to Lake Maumelle.
Senator Mark Johnson Okay. And so it’s almost the northwest corner of Pulaski County and then part of Perry County.
Jim Jolly Yes, sir.
Senator Mark Johnson Is this owned by private landholders at this time?
Jim Jolly Yes, sir. And it’s under heavy threat for development. It’s very good land to develop.
Senator Mark Johnson I’m very familiar with that. Yes. Okay, I just wanted to know where it is because it’s, again, it’s a sensitive area. And I wanted to be aware. But there’s other watersheds on the north side of that mountain that don’t necessarily flow into this, but this is in the designated Lake Maumelle watershed, which is already a protected area?
Jim Jolly Yes, sir.
Senator Mark Johnson All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Representative Jon Eubanks Senator Irvin, you’re recognized for a question.
Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. I want to go back to Central Arkansas Water because they have come before our legislature before and have basically told us that we had no business directing them or telling them what they could or could not do. And I’m recalling that this occurred because there were some questionable donations that were made to various organizations. So I’m a little uncomfortable with this request today because of that history that we have, with those answers that they gave to this body. Is there anybody here from Central Arkansas Water?
Jim Jolly No, ma’am.
Senator Missy Irvin No? Okay. And then my second question, I guess, since there’s nobody, again, I’m going to vote against this because of that. But my second question, is there going to be any type of– is there any assurances that these private property owners are going to sell this property to them? Or are you going to be utilizing eminent domain or any kind of thing like that with this grant request?
Jim Jolly Eminent domain will not be used. That’s part of one of the stipulations of this program and this grant that eminent domain cannot be used. And, in fact, we inform people the value of the property, the appraised value of the property before we purchase it to make sure that everybody’s aware of the value. And right now a lot of the tracts are owned by Potlatch Deltic, and so Potlatch Deltic is divesting in certain areas. And so we’re trying to take advantage of that.
Senator Missy Irvin I see. Okay, well, I would appreciate if you could reach out to somebody at Central Arkansas Water to explain their previous history and answers to our questions when we questioned them and they pushed back on that, but then your answer today that they’re quasi-state agency wanting us to approve this request. So if you could get that information back to me, I would appreciate it.
Jim Jolly Yes, ma’am.
Representative Jon Eubanks So Senator Irvin, it’s my understanding you want to object to the reviewing this item.
Senator Missy Irvin Yeah, I would vote against it. I mean if people want to vote for it, that’s their prerogative.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right, members, we’re going to vote on item H17. Representative Cavenaugh, you’re recognized for a question.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Thank you. We’ve been talking about the $7 million, but the request also asked for 2.33333 for matching funds. What is that for?
Jim Jolly So one of the requirements of the grant is that it be matched by at least 25 percent of the grant of the total amount of the purchase. So Central Arkansas Water has funds that they’re going to use to match that grant, and they’re going to pay that 25 percent. It just has to be non-federal funds for that match.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh So they’re going to put in 2.3 million?
Jim Jolly Yes, ma’am.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh So the full purchase price is $9.3 million?
Jim Jolly Yes, ma’am.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay. And as for a clarification, how come it’s not listed in here that Central, the water district, is going to be purchasing this? There’s nothing in here that really tells us that. We’re having to get that, unless I’m missing it, through asking you questions.
Jim Jolly It wasn’t intended to be left out, as far as– we just didn’t think that information was needed. It was asked that I would be brief on my description.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Well, I think who’s going to be the ultimate owner of the property is pretty pertinent information.
Jim Jolly Okay.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh I mean, you’re not owning it. You’re a pass through. It’s going to somebody else. So nowhere in there, unless we ask questions, are we getting to the real root of who’s going to be owning this property. And you’re saying that you’re using 7 million of it for the purchase, but you’re really not. The purchase price is 9.3 million.
Jim Jolly Right. Well, the grant amount is 7 million.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Okay. Thank you.
Representative Jon Eubanks Senator Johnson, you’re recognized for a question.
Senator Mark Johnson Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr Chairman, I remember the issue that Senator Irvin brought up and I agree with her that there were some things that were troubling that were done administratively at Central Arkansas Water. But, again, that had nothing to do with delivery of water to people in Central Arkansas, which I believe it’s the largest single, as far as numbers of people served, water authority, regional water authority in the state. And this is specifically about protecting the watershed, if I understand that right, Mr. Jolly.
Jim Jolly Yes, sir.
Senator Mark Johnson And this is a whole lot of people that are dependent on this. Little Rock is not the only beneficiary. This includes North Little Rock, Maumelle, Sherwood, and I’m not sure how many other municipalities in unincorporated areas in the region. And I believe their statutory authority, when they were created, goes all the way down to Lake DeGray.
So while I share the concerns that Senator Irvin has brought up, there was some stuff that were really concerning, but it had to do with purchase of some items for their offices and it had nothing to do with their mission. So I encourage the committee to consider that this is money that’s available to protect a watershed. And the Department of Agriculture and CAW are doing exactly that. So thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Jon Eubanks Speaker Evans, you’re recognized for a question.
Representative Brian Evans Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chairman, I’d like to motion to just hold this until Friday. I’ve got several questions about what a quasi-state agency is. And when I look at this, when I studied on this and I looked at this item number, this looked like to me that the department, the State Department of Agriculture, was purchasing this land. But by Mr. Jolly’s testimony, that’s really not what we’re doing here. I see this more as a private entity, Central Arkansas Water.
I’d like some explanation between now and Friday on what a quasi-state agency is. And then it also just gives me a little little concern– maybe it was just not meant the way it was said, but Mr. Jolly said, ‘I was told to make the– I was told to make the presentation very brief.’ That seems to give me a little concern as well, so I’d just like to hold this until Friday, try to get some questions answered.
Representative Jon Eubanks We’re going to hold it until Friday. Senator Irvin, you’re recognized for another question.
Senator Missy Irvin Thank you. And just as you’re gathering that information, I want to know what property taxes have been paid on these pieces of property to which counties. I know that’s continuing to be, and is there any mitigation for those counties in the loss of any property taxes because of the sale of this property?
When government starts to purchase property, you lose revenue. And I represent Searcy County. When the Buffalo River was designated, there was a huge loss of personal property taxes to go to fund those counties. And so Pulaski County may not feel the effects of that, but Perry County absolutely will.
So I’d like to know how much property taxes is being paid currently on these specific pieces of property and how much money that is and to what entity they’re going to and if there’s any mitigation plan for the government purchasing this property. Thank you.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right. All right, members, H17 is going to be held until Friday– 16. H16 is going to be held until Friday. So without objection, H1 through 15 and H17 stands reviewed. Thank you. Moving on to reports. Members, are there any questions? Senator Dismang.
SNAP waiver impact on retailers
Senator Jonathan Dismang So related to I would be DHS and anyone associated with SNAP program. That’s helpful.
Representative Jon Eubanks If someone from DHS could come up, please introduce yourself for the record.
Mary Franklin Good morning. I’m Mary Franklin, director of the Division of County Operations for Department of Human Services.
Senator Jonathan Dismang All right, perfect. Thank you. And I mean, first of all, I want to say I appreciate how we handled the government shutdown and what we did with the grants. I mean, I was in communication with some of our counterparts in other states and it was an absolute nightmare. I think there was this very calm approach that reassured people that there was going to be a backstop. I mean, I know you had other states contemplating special sessions, and I think you have some move through with those. And so, again, I appreciate how we handled that.
On the SNAP program itself, I have started to get some concerns from retailers in relation to how we’re going to implement the nutrition side of the program. My understanding is, initially DHS has proposed using some type of non-SKU in lieu of using SKUs, that it was not going to maintain a list, and on and on and on and on.
And I also understand that we have awarded the administration, or we’re in the process of awarding the administration contract for the SNAP program, but we did not contemplate in that request for proposals the new nutrition requirements. And so my question is going to be, How do we plan on tackling that? Do y’all have concerns and how much correspondence have you all been having with our retailers? Because I know that’s something that y’all typically don’t do as far as interfacing.
Just give me a background on where we are and where you’re planning to head, especially with this idea that we’re going to award a contract to administer, without probably one of the biggest pieces being absent from that contract.
Mary Franklin Yes, sir. I think you are, when you’re speaking about the nutrition component of SNAP, I think you’re referring to the recently approved waiver that FNS gave Arkansas to exclude sodas, candy, unhealthy drinks and–
Senator Jonathan Dismang Absolutely.
Mary Franklin Okay. So we were approved for that waiver and what we were approved for was to use the GS1 framework to define those ineligible foods. And that is what we have done. And as we work towards implementation, which our plan to date is not until July of 2026. We have given retailers options there because not all the retailers get the GS1 framework product code.
Senator Jonathan Dismang I think only one or very few get that framework, but go ahead.
Mary Franklin And we understand that. The framework is just intended to help define the ineligible foods. So we have given retailers three options. The GS1 framework can be used. There’s information available and technical assistance available to help get that information at the retailer supplier level if they’re not getting it now.
We have also, if they choose to use a third party to help take that GS1 framework and apply it to their own individual product array that they sell, that’s an option as well. And then the third option is, take the broad definitions that we are providing through the GS1 framework and apply it in good faith to their own product array without contracting or expenses. We’ve been meeting with retailers.
One of your questions was what kind of interface are we having with retailers. We’ve been meeting monthly with them for several months and discussing this process. We have also been meeting with FNS and getting technical assistance from FNS on the process. And we still have some pieces of it to work out, including what is FNS going to require from their side of the compliance and monitoring piece. But we are working with them to get that and we’ll definitely share all that with retailers as soon as it’s available.
That’s our electronic benefit transfer contract, and that is how we deliver the SNAP benefits to our recipients. An EBT card is similar to a debit card. It’s not exactly a debit card, but it works very similarly to a debit card, and it can be used to purchase foods. There is no need to include anything in that contract related to the SNAP excluded foods waiver.
That will not be done by the EBT vendor, probably would be the most expensive way to try and implement this type of waiver and is not something that FNS has recommended. So I do not believe that we have a problem with that upcoming award with that contract, which is to deliver the SNAP and summer EBT benefits. We also deliver the transitional employment assistance cash benefits through that EBT contract onto those cards.
Senator Jonathan Dismang Okay, what I would tell you is, and I believe this to be correct, your three options are not workable options for retailers. That may be the easiest thing for DHS to do, but it is not feasible for every grocer or retailer in the state to maintain their own list and then be subject to the risk of a secret shopper proving that they’re not able to follow whatever it may be.
There are hundreds of new products created and offered daily. And what we’re asking our retailers to do is bear the burden, and we talked about the most cost effective way to do something. Shifting that cost to a retailer may be cost effective to DHS, but it is not for our small retailers in the state.
What I am scared you’re going to do is create a scenario where entities, probably in areas that they need it the most, are not going to be able to offer SNAP because of the risk associated with not appropriately, I guess, categorizing an item. DFA can speak from experience. This is a very difficult task that you’re asking people to do to make a decision of what’s a candy, soft drink, snack, whatever it may be. They have to do it because of sales tax purposes.
And they can talk to you about– now, this will be just an analogy and it’s going to be poorly done– but a Snickers with almonds may qualify as a nutritious food and a Snickers with peanuts may not. Or a Snickers that is frozen qualifies as a nutritious food, but one that is not frozen does not. And so we’re going to be asking our retailers to make those judgment calls at their own peril if they do it incorrectly.
I would implore you to look at establishing your own list that retailers can use with confidence so that you’re not placing that burden on them. I think it’s improper for us to do that. And if we want to pass state laws, which we did because we think that SNAP should be used for nutritious programs, then we should create the tools that make that usable and friendly for our retailers in the state to have an achievable response to what we’ve asked them to do.
So your first three options are not workable. And especially your third option– we’re just going to let them decide what’s nutritious or not. I was afraid that was going to be your response. I hope that we visit about this more. I know we’ve got members in this committee, maybe Public Health chair sitting in front of me. I hope that we will take this on because if this is the path you plan to go on, it will be a failure. And so I hope we’re able to intervene so that we may be able to redirect this ship before we have a bigger issue. Thank you.
Mary Franklin Thank you, Senator Dismang. We will definitely take this feedback, appreciate your feedback and have some additional discussions internally and see what we can develop from this feedback. And I will also state it is not our intention at all to cause retailers to not be able to participate as an authorized retailer in the SNAP program. We want to keep all the retailers as possible.
Senator Jonathan Dismang But you do understand when you’re placing that type of risk on a retailer, that at some point it’s just best not to say, we’re not going to engage. And I will guarantee you it will be in the communities that will be impacted the most where our big chains may not be able to exist, where a mom and pop has been the one to stand up and hold a grocery store in an area with a low population and low income.
So again, I implore you to do everything you can to make a manageable program. Because everything I’ve heard so far, this is not going to be successful. And I promise when you come back, because you’ve decided that you want to be not forward thinking about the possible outcome six months from now or whenever implementation happens, this will be a much less fun committee meeting.
Mary Franklin Understood. Thank you, sir.
Representative Jon Eubanks All right, members, any other questions on any of the reports? Representative Stetson, you’re recognized. Which report?
Representative Stetson Painter J4.
Representative Jon Eubanks Someone from DFA come to the table, please. Please introduce yourself for the record.
Jim Hudson Jim Hudson, secretary, DFA.
Alan McVey Alan McVay, DFA.
Representative Stetson Painter Morning, Secretary. Just had a quick question. Throughout this report, there are seven different items that are not calculated correct. And I mean some of them are pretty big margins. Can you explain that for me? So like on page 2, the last item, 4 million plus 300,000 is, I don’t think 8 million. And then on page 3, the second to last one, the only item that shows is 121,000, but the total is 161,000. There’s seven of them, if I counted correctly, throughout the report.
Jim Hudson There’s no good explanation, Representative. You have my apologies. The committee has my apologies. We’re a department that’s in charge of math. We ought to be able to do it. And we’ll get it corrected and we’ll submit a new report to you. You do have my sincere apologies.
Representative Ryan Rose No, I just wanted to make sure. Thank you.
Jim Hudson Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I was not aware the error was in there.
Representative Jon Eubanks Representative Cavenaugh, who’s your question for?
Representative Frances Cavenaugh Thank you. And Secretary Hudson, while you’re doing that, on your secondary report on the state clearinghouse, it has no totals on it. It has numbers, it has a line item for total and there are no totals at all on that report.
Jim Hudson You talking about a grand total for all of it?
Representative Frances Cavenaugh No. If you’ll look at each, if you look on page 1, Arkansas Department of Finance, it has 5.1– well, that’s a bad example. The second, the Arkansas Forestry, it has like two items, federal in kind, and has a light item for total, and there’s no total on any of them.
Jim Hudson Yes, ma’am. So I guess we were very comprehensive in our errors.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh But anyway, thank you.
Jim Hudson We will get it all fixed, and I will personally review it before it comes back to you. And again, my sincere apologies. This should not have happened.
Representative Jon Eubanks Any other questions? Seeing no other business, we’re adjourned.
